Chi Sim's Wooden Dommy or of Yip Man? Which one of them it arose first?

[O_COISA]

Which grouping of technical (composites) or "used form today for the training in the called equipment Muk Yan Jong (wooden dommy) arose first: the existing composites in the system Yip Man Wing Chun or the ones of system Chi Sim Weng Chun?

[Cang Long]

Hello O_COISA,
Are you asking if Yip Man invented the wooden dummy (Muk Yan Jong)?

[sauchi]

Hi

Wooden dummies have been around way before Yip man, but as for the peticular wooden dummy that we most commonly see, I know that it became more popular in Hong Kong especially with the Yip Man Lineage. Later I read that Yip Man had visited with the Jee Chi masters in HK and liked the design from them which has the parallel wood through the dummy and used their design.

Before in the old days, I know that Muk Yan Jongs were just tree trunks coming out of the ground without the side to side motion.

MYJ were in Shaolin Temples Centuries before. There was also a very famed Temple with a Hall of dummies. They used to show a similar hallway in a 70's TV series called "Kung Fu" with David Carridine. Actually it was Bruce Lee's written creation of "kung Fu"

I think I answered your question but there is my 2 cents

Sauchi

[O_COISA]

Originally posted by Cang Long
Hello O_COISA,
Are you asking if Yip Man invented the wooden dummy (Muk Yan Jong)?

Not Cang Long. I know that Yip Man didn't invented the wooden dummy (Muk Yan Jong).

Sorry Cang. I don't dominate the english language. Actually I need the electronic dictionaries help and of an electronic translator to manage to interact in the forum.

I am going to try to reformulate the question.

Which actions sequence for the training in wooden dummy (Muk Yan Jong) arose first: had practiced them in Yip Man Wing Chun or in Chin Sim Weng Chun Kuen?

{What it signification "cang long"?}

************************************************** ************************************************** ****

Não Cang Long. Sei que Yipp Mam não criou o boneco de madeira (Muk Yan Jong).

Desculpe Cang. Não domino o idioma inglês. Na verdade preciso da ajuda de dicionários eletrônicos e de um tradutor eletrônico para conseguir interagir no fórum.

Eu vou tentar reformular a pergunta.

Qual seqüência de movimentos para o treinamento no boneco de madeira (Muk Yan Jong) surgiu primeiro: os praticados no Yip Man Wing Chun ou no Chin Sim Weng Chun Kuen?

{O que significa "cang long"?}

[JamesHFYofAZ]

The yip man history of its leneage fades in to a story about a girl, and the chi sim's history fades back to an actual monk of southern shoalin! "Only one Shaolin Master escaped the fire, a nun by the name of Ng Mui. She settled in Futshan and passed her knowledge to a young orphan girl who she named Yim Wing Chun. Yim Wing Chun shared this kung fu with husband Leung Bok Cho. Bok Cho named the style after her."
The chi sim history seems to me to be alittle more realistic.
Link to history (http://home.vtmuseum.org/genealogy/chi_sim/family_tree.php)
The history points in favor of chi sim! Why do you ask?

[O_COISA]

Originally posted by JamesHFYofAZ
The history points in favor of chi sim! Why do you ask?

Thank you very much friends.

Here in Brazil, 99,9% of any reference on Wing Chun relate just the "histories" registered for Yip Man. However, to come much time questioning this ones information.

In a brazilian discussion list about martial arts (Yahoo), I questioned regarding a video where a person runs Muk Yan Jong's "form"* ("Kuen to"; Quen Tao; Chan Tao; Quan Tao; Kati). In the I begin of this video are run the system initial actions Yip Man Wing Chun, but all the rest of the images introduce actions that aren't common to system Yip Man Wing Chun. We know that all Yip Man's arising lineages own significant differences in the teaching of his content. I then asked whether the "form" introduced in the system video era Yip Man Wing Chunor of other system. They related in one of the answers that there wasn't no form Muk Yan Jong (wooden dommy) but that Yip Man had grouped the techniques perhaps for didactic reasons.

With this information I finished having more doubts, since the system Chi Sin Weng Chun also owns a "form" for Muk Yan Jong (wooden dommy) with actions very similar to the of the system Yip Man Wing Chun.

Then many doubts arose naturally:

1) Isn't there a "form" for MukYanJong? Is he just an equipment for refinement coach? Would in Wing Chun original Muk Yan Jong (wooden dommy) have been used of free form?

2) Yip Man would actually have grouped technical for pedagogical reasons and thus maid the "form"?

3) But the system Chi Sin Weng Chun also owns a "form" for Muk Yan Jong (wooden dommy). Then some master of this system also created one "form"?

4) Would Yip Man more some master Chi Sin Weng Chun have had the idea of create a "form" for Muk Yan Jong (wooden dommy) his due pedagogical goals?

5) Always there was a "form" for Muk Yan Jong (wooden dommy) in Wing Chun, however each system and or style, during time and due circunstancias historical finished creating each one your "form". It's classical the free training in Muk Yan Jong (wooden dommy)?

And now I have more doubts:

a) After all, how, where and who did Yip Man with have his first contact with Muk Yan Jong (wooden dommy) suspended?

b) Which ones did the aspects coaches (turnovers) and of construction of Muk Yan Jong (wooden dommy) influence Yip Man through his contact with Chi Sin Weng Chun?

And more:

I. There are a lot of Wonden Dommy's types. Which do the correct structure in the wood density that suspend Muk Yan Jong (wooden dommy)? Flexible (Dommy "alive")? Practically inflexible (Dommy "dead")?

II. Yip Man's Muk Yan Jong (wooden dommy) was "alive" or "dead"?

(*) www.realmartialarts.com/RmaStore/Immortal/Video/RickFaye.wmv

[O_COISA]

Yip Man and your cousin, Chu Chong Man, Master in Chi Sim Weng Chun.

[Cang Long]

Nice picture o_coisa, it does look very telling don't you think?