The 'dark side' of our martial art

[Armin]

Hi to all!

I had a discussion with a guy who trains a substyle of Jiu Jitsu about self-defence and 'street-fighting'. Well, his arguments sounded very good and smoehow reasonable.

His sensei, a police-officer, teaches a system that works within the juristical boundaries of self-defence. Here's an example of how they train and 'work' on the street:

If the attacker stands right in front of you, you kick his knee - not too hard! Just so hard, that he has problems 'hunting' you and you can start avoiding him until the police or someone else stops the fight.

For them, it's like trading. They give a small view of what could happen to the attacker and hope, that this will stop the attacker from further actions.

Now, somehow this doesn't feel right. After several days of thinking (and reading on No nonsense self-defense (http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/) ) I finally figured out, what the flaws are.

1st: If an attacker really wanted to start hurting you, just hurting him 'a little' may or may not stop him - in most cases it may not. There's too much bad blood and adrenaline in him, he won't just stop.

2nd: And that's the real deal: this guy wasn't talking of self-defence. He was talking of duel-situations. Someone standing right in front of you, giving you names and trying to provoke you - that's a duel. It's like fighting in the ring. The rules may be different, but it's still the same kind of fight.

And now, that point made me think. If I, being a Ving Tsun-guy, were to attack someone, would I really stand right in front of him and show him, what I was about to do? No way! There's this economy of motion - how much energy would it take to attack from behind instead of attack from the front???

You see, what I mean? My experiences is, that most guys really wait until you don't look at them - and rush in for the kill. And that brings me to what I call the dark side of Ving Tsun.

Historically, the members of the red boats, fought against the manchu. But did they work like an army, coming to a city and camping right in front of the wall? No, our ancestors used the night and disguised themselves. They laid ambushes and attacked their foes from behind.

Same goes for today: wait until your enemy isn't looking or is distracted. Than attack. The opportunity is there - use it.

And that is one of several differences to other 'normal' martial arts. We don't want to be the 'holy knight', who wins in an open battle - there's too much chance to get hurt or wounded. We attack from the side (6 gates against 3) or better from behind and we get the fight over as soon and as fast as possible. Economy of motion - or to put it more 'global': economy of action.

What do you think on this?


Greetings,

Armin.

[Cang Long]

1st: If an attacker really wanted to start hurting you, just hurting him 'a little' may or may not stop him - in most cases it may not. There's too much bad blood and adrenaline in him, he won't just stop.
Hello Armin,
I am inclined to agree with you here and even more important your skill must be at the weng kiu level in order for you to execute on demand the ability to deliver just enough dibilitating pain to stop an attacker because that can vary from person to person depending on size, pain tolerence and many more things.2nd: And that's the real deal: this guy wasn't talking of self-defence. He was talking of duel-situations. Very good point and again we agree. There is a serious need to understand the situation before it can be properly difused. First the illusion of the situation must be removed and secondly after that a proper knowledge of time space and energy must be maintained at all times for all things.

[Armin]

Hi Cang Long,

your points are good. I worked as a bouncer for more than two years and you just hit the mark of the biggest problem - using as much force as needed, not more or less, to save the situation.

Most people stop arguing when 'pushed around' a little, some people stop fighting after getting hit for the first time. But there are some people out there (less than 1 %), that won't stop. You got to identify these people and use as much power as possible.

But there's one kind of people, that won't stop, even if you gave everything you have. I had two very bad experiences with a guy who did cocaine.

You know, that's one of that days, when everything runs bad. And then you have this guy, arguing and shouting at you. He makes a fist and tries to hit you - prepared as you are, you hit him first. A fine straight punch to the head that might have killed an ox. He just shakes his head, his sight clears and its getting worse. That's the point when you learn to like those chain-punches - that keeps him busy until you found out how to control him and get some other guys to help you.

I had fights with neo-nazi rockers, rugby-players, punks and all that 'crap'. I even had some 'meetings' with knifes and a gun. And there's one thing I really learned of that situations: being aware of the situation is the most important thing. Awarenenss of the guy in fornt of you, of how he holds his hands (why is he holding his hand that why or what does he want to pull out from under his shirt). And you got to be aware of his friends around you.


Armin.

PS: there's one experience I'd like to share - I'm gonna put it into another thread, to make it easier to follow.

[alakso]

Great Thread! IMHO awareness is critical to see the situation for what it really is. Every situation requires a different response as dictated by it's Truth or Reality.

IMHO, "Listening" when one makes contact enables one to flow with the situation. Contact should never be broken until the threat id subdued.

I do agree with lower body attacks to stop aggressive attackers. Take away the Root and their house will collapse.

[Cang Long]

Every situation requires a different response as dictated by it's Truth or Reality. Wow, alakso, the succinctness of this statement just cuts to the core of it all. While chasing after techniques if the 98% of martial arts world that don't already address this statement (situation) would do so we would all be so much further along in our journey instead of rehashing the same old questions or believing there is no right or wrong in martial arts when in fact the realities of life suggest precision always trumps guess work or trial and error why shouldn't that law apply to martial arts, very well said.

Sure we often hear "there is more than one way to skin a cat" but in times of war in life or death situations we only want the most precise and effective resolution to our present reality that one can find.