Simpleton

[Ricksta]

Enough is enough!!! U trashed talked about all the WCK lineages. BUt when you come to our forum and talk Sh!t about us. Ohhh hells no!!

Who the hell are you anyways? What do you really know about HFY? You think just by looking at a system and by asking a few questions makes you an expert? Wrong!! What kind of research did you really do to make up all these assumptions? You know nothing ok!!

If you don't have anything good to say, keep it to yourself.

[Simpleton]

Wrong never trashed talked all wing chun lineages get your facts straight before you go shooting off at the mouth you are jumping the gun.Never once bad mouthed HFY.

[Sihing68]

Remember the thread that was recently deleted. If that's not bad mouthing, I guess you don't know what you are saying/writing.

[Simpleton]

Enough is enough!!! U trashed talked about all the WCK lineages. BUt when you come to our forum and talk Sh!t about us. Ohhh hells no!!

First off it nothing to do with different Wing Chun lineages
If it don;t apply let it fly

[Ricksta]

Never once bad mouthed HFY.


You are such a hypocrite!!! The last post that you posted on the thread "pr"? That long *** post you posted that got deleted? maybe you are just schizophrenic.
You come to our forum and bad mouth all the lineages and you are telling me i'm jumping the gun? Come come to our forum acting like you are an WCK expert. Let me tell you something!! All you do is senseless rambling!! I didnt want to even read your post till somebody told me that you said something bad about us. You don't know **** about our lineage and difinitly you are a no one to us.

So again!! Shut your mouth if you have nothing good to say. Our forum has no place for somebody like you here!!!

[Simpleton]

You sound like a idiot I know nothing about HFY or said anything about it but since you like to run your mouth maby you will put up or shut up. we can test your skills in the ring if not SHUT UP

[Sihing68]

Simpleton,

You gotta be outta your mind. I hope that someone saved your post. May I suggest something,

(1) Change your password, cause someone is logging on with your name and badmouthing HFY and other wck lineages

(2) Get your post proofread before posting

(3) Get a clue as to what is "offensive" and "what is not"

peace out

BTW, does this post seem "offensive" to you? I hope not, cause your tone is worse!

[Ricksta]

we can test your skills in the ring


wooooooo!!!! You think you are a big man saying that to me?? Me sound stupid? All your posts sound stupid!!! You are just another one of those INTERNET PUNKS !!

and my skills? You don't even know me and trust me, I don't want to know you or your pathetic little life experiences. I don't even have to use my WC on your pathetic a$$. To me your not even worth laying my eyes on. so please, like a said over and over. SHUT YOUR MOUTH IF YOU DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING GOOD TO SAY OR CONTRIBUTE!!!!!

Be a real man and just keep your negativity to yourself no one wants to listen to your bickering.

[Simpleton]

[]Look Rickster If I wanted any lip from you I would have picked it off my zipper. Can't you find anything else to do. Seems like you have more stories than Walt Disney. Maby you should go train or find something constructive to do or say instead of rideing my d---- . Like I said the style I was critizing was William Cheungs made up system.

[Cang Long]

originally posted by Simpleton
Wrong never trashed talked all wing chun lineages get your facts straight before you go shooting off at the mouth you are jumping the gun.Never once bad mouthed HFY. Many of us disagree with you on this Simpleton simply because you show little to no mo duk in many of your post and we have seen this before.

These old let me emphasize old Rumors has been played out time and time again you seem to disagree with Robert Chu but your actions are remeniscent of his and how he too is quick and willing to brake Mo Duk denouncing other Masters and Families long before your little post here. Originally posted by Simpleton
William cheung runs dope and prostitutes in HK still to this day. 1. Robert Chu also said this years ago in front of many witnesses. It made no sense for him to try to build himself up by putting others down then as it makes no sense for you to try to come in here years later with the same story trying to impress others with this heresay. So are you just another one of Robert Chu's mouthboxers trying to spead the same old rumors?Originally posted by Simpleton
He actually watched cheung develop his jong entry technique(one reason we know hfy is from twc not the other way around). 2. Once again another misconception perpetuated by the Robert Chu group years earlier on the wing chun mailing list. This is too laughable a statement. Many varied and distinguished martial artist have discussed the differences concerning TWC "entry technique" in contrast with Hung Fa Yi's awareness of Saam dim yat sin 3 points 1 line. You yourself stated I am now learning yks but yks uses the same ygkym as leung sheung does. So not much is differant except there is more 2 it, everything makes sense, Why not take the time to learn the truth instead of spreading rumor and gossip as to why you perceive Hung Fa Yi as similiar except for the fact there is more two it than what you perceive or heard. If you care to read some thoughts on the subject direct your attention to one particular thread by a qualified Yip Man instructor and his interpetation and perspective of the 2 systems. Read thread entitled My First Learning Experience Under Grandmaster Garrett Gee Then get proper instruction on HFY.

What Ricksta and others are pointing out to you is that though you may not percieve your words as offensive we do. Not only what you stated about Hung Fa Yi but bad mouthing other masters and families as well. Mo Duk is important to us as a family and your post do nothing to show respect for your sifu and if you don't have a sifu your post are a good example as to why you need a sifu. Try to keep in mind you are not the arbiter of the Gung Wu stop trying to police all things you can not. Kung fu is a journey for truth in teachers, in schools in individuals and you can not make the journey for someone else you can help without putting others down because your perceptions or rumors may not always apply to others. That being the case Mo Duk as a rule is without question the best rule of the thumb for all martial artist at all times.

[Simpleton]

Never wrote any of that but sounds true to me If I wrote it I would say so.

[Ricksta]

hahahaha !!!!!

Your Soooooo Wacked!!!!! Your a Moron dude!!!! Let me advise you somthing you MORON!!! If yuou want to insult somebody please use an insult that's not played out!!! You must be an old ****!!! Your Lame dude!!!!! Lame!!!!! Lame !!!!

[Op108wc]

Originally posted by Simpleton
Never wrote any of that but sounds true to me If I wrote it I would say so.

Originally posted by Simpleton

So I must know you as I assisted both Cedric Grayson
and Phil Redmond [Cheung's Traditional Wing Chun
www.wingchunkwoon.com] in teaching at various times. I
was Redmond's second student. The first was fat and
lazy and never came to class, so really I was his
first! Lets start at the beginning. I've studied WCK
for over 10 years. 12 years ago I learned Thai boxing
from a guy named Caldwell one of the only Americans to
be certified in Thailand. Did that for 2 years until I
met Rahim.; I had 1 WCK lesson and the 45 angles
stuck. Well during a training session I kneed him in
the mouth because I was on a 45 knocked his 2 front
teeth out. He said it was my fault cause I knew
everything and didn't have faith in what he taught me,
so I started with Rahim. He had 1 student named Eric
Ebersol, who had been with him for 3 years. The first
real group of guys was the group I started with Terry,
Keith, Kevin and 3 others. Most of the guys that are
teaching under his school started way after like Joel,
Silver, Dennis, Omar, etc. I was really good friends
with Rahim. I worked for his security team at the Red
Door when he was co owner. I played guitar for his
band Chronic Boom who had opened for rage against the
machine. We played shows with 500+ with gangster fun
so I studied under him for about 3-4 years. At one
point he met Augustine Fong and started changing his
forms. I didn't agree with the direction he went with
some of it as it wasn't from Leung Sheung or Fong so
when I saw a flyer for "traditional WCK" I ran to see
what was up, that was when I met Phil. He told me the
whole TWC lie and I believed it for a short period of
time. He asked Ced to give up his whole school to him
and to learn the true WCK. They went back and fourth
with a million different situation (we can discuss
them individually later I wanted to give you the over
all synopsis). I was learning from both. Originally
Phil taught me out of my house in Detroit. He worked
near by so I also went up to his work and he trained
me in the back lol his cousin owned the store so when
he started teaching out of the white crane school. I
was his assistant. (so many stories from there). At
one point there was so much trouble Phil caused that
the white crane school closed down and no longer
teaches publicly. In fact the sifu had heard things
about Phil and asked me if they were true and I told
him the truth!!! So phil then treated me like **** and
acted like I was trying to steal his real wck trying
to take the secrets back to Ced. So Phil started
teaching out of some guy's house in Eastpointe named
Mike. I believe these guys were scared of Detroit and
that was ridiculous. (Many stories to come). So at
this point I knew Phil was full of ****. TWC was crap,
he was crap. William Cheung was a liar and had no clue
what real wck was. Ced was doing his own thing and
well I had 7 years under my belt and went out on my
own. I visited and met all the wck schools in MI
except Sam Chan. I met Francis Fong (the last place I
knew Phil was teaching out of where the guy does JKD,
Kali, Savate, Thai boxing) way before Phil met those
guys. Traveled to meet Eddie Chong and worked out with
them, learned the Pan Nam style, found a WSL guy who
was a cook in a chinese restaurant (I was the only guy
to track him down!!! at least that I know of), found a
direct student of Yip Ching worked out with him
learned his jong. Had a kung fu brother I met from
Sunny Tang school in canada that came to phils class
when he was teaching at the white crane school. Phil
was made to look real bad; that is what opened my
eyes. This guy traveled to see the special TWC that
was better than everyones, and walked away laughing.
He then took me under his wing and got my forms back
to yip man style; met the wing chun do guys (james
demile) and beat up on their sifu and then 2 years ago
I moved to ohio; I got divorced and my daughter had
died and needed to escape (funny when I left phil he
said he would never learn wck again he would make sure
of it and everyone he tried calling laughed at him and
said he should go and ask Cheung about ethics) when I
got to ohio I visited the vtm saw hfy noticed it was
twc lol wanted no part of that lol i than met the
leung sheung guys who are through ken cheung and knew
that is what I wanted my WCK to be Ceds original
teachings -- the direct fai ching woo teachings were
very close and so that is what I have focused on for 2
years and that is what I will continue to do. I am now
learning yks but yks uses the same ygkym as leung
sheung does. So not much is differant except there is
more 2 it, everything makes sense, no missing holes
like in most wck lol. rrrrrr there ya go there is the
basic over view, keep the ball rolling, give me your
bio and then we can go into all the specific nitty
gritty heh. so where exactly do you live?? you can
visit me in ohio before I move next year.!! when was
the last time you saw Ced?? hows his wck coming along?
what knew with his school? who has he been learning
from?? Brian: Hi Nelson. No Carmelino was way after
me, in fact he wasn't around until Redmond was kicked
out of the white crane school and he started teaching
in east point in that guys basement. Redmond "and I
quote " I will create an army because thats what he is
doing he is preparing for an all out war with me and I
won't lose cause I'm old school" hehe that was the
last time I learned from him. Is this fat and lazy guy
named Carmelino giao? Nelson: Currently this fat guy
is redmond's "Top Dog" and one of the reasons why I
quit training with Redmond. Brian: I punked him out so
bad the whole school of [Traditional Wing Chun] dorks
hated me! They were such pussies all suburbanites and
I have spent much of my life in detroit so and what
can I say Rahim taught me to be aggressive and I am; I
was never that way with Ced of course, because he was
my sifu and he wanted me to "open" up but back than I
didn't get how to do that with my wck now. It's
totally different. I train in a small YGKYM holding
something between my legs for 1 hour every day.
Totally, I work out about 6 hours a day. I hit the bag
with a very special punching technique from leung jans
koolo teachings called the mai jee hong choi: very
rare, 500 reps when I wake, 1000 at night very slowly
working on lik yiu noi kung. I have focused on ken
chungs teachings which are just like what I learned
from cedric originaly or fairly close you can see the
leung sheung and I've worked on just training this
style for the past several years, the yuen kay san i
use the same horse!!! Just different pivoting,
different punch, different feel, tighter better faster
jing . So back to top dog. He got ruff, started using
his fat gut on me. That he was going to show the
skinny guy. That didn't work; I ***** slapped him so
hard hhhhhhh his glasses flew across the room. He
never said a word to me again. That was 2 days before
I left that morons [Phil Redmond] school. Nelson: I
started learning WC on my own in about 1995, I ordered
a 14 volume VHS tape series by Steve Cottrel. Where I
used to live in Windsor, Ontario. There were no Kung
Fu Schools and I heard about WC and did some research
so I ventured out on my own to do the best I could to
learn what I could. In 1996 I started training in wing
chun do under Rocco Ambrose. Brian: His top disciple
who is a sifu, I met when Eddie Chong was giving a
seminar (after he moved from MI) about 6 years ago and
his chi sao sucked. I locked on to his structure and
uprooted him all over the parking lot in front of my
wife she was laughing in the back ground lol. Nelson:
He explained how a small person can defeat strength.
He did little demonstration holding my arm at the
wrist, having me punch him, and deflecting it no
matter how much strength I used this plus the fact
that the system traced back to Bruce Lee got me
interested. I studied with him for a few months but
after finding out that there were no forms and just
basic applications I decided to drop out of the
system. (On the side, I have always been a theory
hungry fanatic, I like to have everything explained to
me in detail.) WCD was nothing more than punching the
bag and playing a kick the little bean ball with your
foot game. I also thought some of their techniques
were weird -- the Bong Sao seemed really twisted, LOL.
In 1997 I moved to Phoenix Arizona and studied for a
short while under Brian Tufts, I noticed they did the
SLT form for a long time class was only 55 minutes
long and the form took about 30 minutes to complete! I
was there on work assignment and left shortly after
but I was impressed with this WC it looked pretty cool
to me. Then in the fall of 1998 I met Phil Redmond.
Brian: God I'm so sorry. I wish I knew you. I would
have warned you and saved you the trouble. I was such
a dumb *** for ever doing that crap. It ruined my wck
for years. If it wasn't for the Sunny Tang student
making Redmond look bad and getting my wck back on the
right path and than Rahim showed me the boztepe/cheung
video and I saw what an *** wipe redmond was. Asking
another grown man to give up his school to learn some
hog wash. William cheung runs dope and prostitutes in
HK still to this day. He got yip man his opium. He was
in the tongs and he created twc. No way it came from
leung bik. Leung bik would have done wck like his
father leung jan and it probably would look like
koolo. best wck in my opinion: leung sheung, wsl , tst
(has great theory the best but wsl is much beter at
application it combat), yks and koolo from the fung
family; sap yee san sik fung gar; fung family 12
separate techniques, each of the 12 small sets has 3
skills in it so you get a total of 36 interrelated
motions. This is not simple. Don't be fooled its some
of the best wck ive found, in fact it is Profound.
Leung Jan was a genius there is a lot of bs from koolo
like Robert chus 40 points or the 22 points which is
koolo wck mixed with hakka but the real deal which is
never taught publicly is one of the best. Nelson: I
found a flyer from oriental gateway Brian: again im
sorry, lol Nelson: and did some research and heard the
story of the modified Wc and how TWC was the only real
WC out there. Being inexperienced I fell for this and
began training with Redmon. I noticed how ****y the
guy was but he was really good at talk and very
convincing. I began taking many private lessons with
him but instead of learning something with substance I
learnt **** really basic stuff; this relationship
continued till 2002 may when I finally quit/ got
booted out and I have in the mean time been training
on my own. Brain: Redmond is a disgrace dogging you
like that in public I have so much info on him and
william cheung we could ruin him in detroit. There is
a reason why he left new york!!! Jason Lau [Jiu Wan
lineage] was going to take his life and that is no
joke and he is a scared *****. Nelson: And just
recently started training with Rahim. So I saw him
last week. During the year,I have been teaching a guy
privately and just continue practicing on my own
mostly from watching tapes. I don't know who grayson
is learning from now he says he trained under
Grandmaster Woo Fai Cheng..but that he, woo, had a
stroke and no longer teaches. Brian: Redmond has been
trying to discredit cedric the past 6 months all over
the net. But I've defended ced time and time again
explaining who our lineage is from. In fact, I got
into a fight last month with the top disciple of a
student of Ken Cheung. They acted like Ken Cheung is
the only student Leung Sheung had!!! So I went to
their school and the top guy and me went at it. He
walked away with a bloody nose. He has great root but
my hands are so much better; I am so fast and drill
into and control my opponents structure. I'm not being
arrogant; I hate bad wck and hate fakes. So many wck
are talk and go to schools and chi sao and if they are
bsing or teaching something fake I expose them. Guy
here in columbus teaching canton wck wouldnt even roll
with me. So I had his student work out with me. he
couldn't even roll!!! No joke, so 2 of his 4 students
take lessons from me now. Something else to look out
for Hung Fa Yi, it is TWC I swear to you, lol. Brian:
ahhhh my friend .how are you??? Nelson: Brian, I
forwarded a copy of our email to Sifu Grayson. Brian
tufts is from the Augustine Fong lineage. Brain: Not
bad. I like some of Fongs stuff actually Ho Kam Ming
wck is better. Fong travelled to the mainland of china
and picked up some stuff from yks especially in his
chum kiu form sometimes there are a few things that
aren't right but overall better than a lot I have seen
in the states. Nelson: I have a theory about TWC and I
am quite certain that Cheung made it up and that HFY
is also a load of crap. Brian: I know cheung made it
up. Here is my logic flow 1) Leung Biks wck would use
a pigeon toed ygkym not the yee gee mah thats
parallel. We can see what Leung Biks WCK looked like
by looking at what Leung Jans WCK looked like. And
what did Leung Jan's wck look like? Just look at Koolo
Sap Yee San Sik of the Fungs and we see their small
pigeon toed stance. You see the bong with a bent
wrist, a low tan sao, etc, so the leung bik story is
****ing funny 2) the vtm told me cheung learned hfy in
the mainland while hanging out hiding from the hk
cops. ok why cant we find hfy anywhere in china?? not
in hk not in the mainland we cant find it because its
not there? 3) I believe yip man did learn from leung
bik but he didnt learn a whole new system or anything
secret. He learned the side body theory(pin sin) leung
jan taught the straight body(jung sin) method in
fatsan that is what chan wah shun learned and thats
what yip man learned originally from chan wah shun.
Both are there in all wck he just focused on 1 when he
was younger and the other when he was older and
couldn't be as aggresive with his energy. So leung bik
only increased and refined yip mans understanding. I
am writing a book on wck historyl I already have a
publisher and have a whole chapter on leung jan. and
will prove once and for all yip man did learn from
leung bik. Yes I have proof 4) The sifu im learning
from lives in australia he is a direct disciple of sum
numg (yks top disciple) currently since we are not in
the same space and time he is teaching me theory and
history. He saw when cheung moved to australia. He saw
william cheung create twc. He actually watched cheung
develop his jong entry technique(one reason we know
hfy is from twc not the other way around). When cheung
first got to ausi he did wck like everyone else!! you
saw what tst said and tst did alot of cheungs training
as the si hings do like wsl taught bruce lee not
william so william taught wck like everyone else.
There is a student named david crook who is still
around he learned from cheung when he first got there
and he testifies to what im saying so at one point
William Cheung did travel back to the mainland and
studied various wck including yks and chi shim; his
footwork structure is from chi shim, probably chu
chong man lineage. His footwork pattern is a mixture
of 2 things: yks som gwok mah (they way they use it is
different to yip man) and the bot jum tao and lok dim
bot gwun which the chi shim get there footwork from
the look dim bot gwun. So he went back to australia
and as soon as yip man died started teaching twc to
his students and then came out with his silly ***
story. 5) Now Cheung started teaching in cali and new
york. this was in 83 remond and sonny whitmore had
*****d every sifu in new york. No one wanted anything
to do with them and jason lau(jiu wan) was going to
literaly kill him so they jumped at learning from the
Cheungster. Now when cheung would visit the states one
of his top students named Joe Grippa was given Garret
Gees address as cheung contact so 6) We see the truth
cheung used Leung Jan side body theory which deals
with flanking and the central line theory got his
stance from chi shim and footwork from yks and chi
shim/knives, 6.5 pole the bong sao was actually
something yip man did come up with on his own twords
the end of his life so that came from him. That fook
dog paw is from chi chim weng chun. The high tan is
from chi shim weng chun and some of the orchestration
in his forms is from yks and hfy comes direcly from
grandmaster pooba Nelson: The fat guy came at me with
his big gut but as he was my senior I didn't fight
back Glad you gave him some lumps! Brian: He deserved
it i hate bullies!!! actually I am Buddhist. I don't
advocate violence sometimes you must protect yourself
or loved ones but I also believe in the old code of
honor and have gor saoed with other wck people when
disrespect was given and not apologized for sometimes
karma brings things together know what I mean? Nelson:
I heard about Redmond once bragging about TWC being
the best and that he was at party, you were there, and
some big guy picked him under the arms like a baby and
threw him into an adjacent room. Redmond landed on the
bed and threw a fit cussing. LOL. Brian: hahahahah
Rahim has a great memory. lolol yes that is very true.
Sad thing is though the guy wasnt big, LOLOLOLOLOL he
was an older guy about Redmond's age and redmond was
talking **** so the guy swoooped him up chucked him
into the other room and he landed on the bed and the
guy said something like "see I told you anyone can
take anyone. No martial art is the best its how you
train that matters.." Back then Redmond was so out of
shape you would only chi sao once in awile only for a
few minutes and he never had me open up only followed
specific patterns and thats anti chi sao if you ask
me!!! If you read on the public forum Redmond
denounces me. He was always like that with me. Nelson:
I would ask him a question why do you do fooksao like
a dog's paw pointed towards your opposite foot? and he
got his wooden dummy arm and slid it across my forearm
and said "see reason so that your chest not hit by arm
fooksao like dog protect chest being hit by arm
modified fook sao held level he say don't." Redmond
also said that the bong sao modified with finger
pointing forward is no good because you can grab it
and twist at wrist, chin-na. You don't have time in
real fight to grab like that But Bonsao held so high
like cheung also no good you can push up from
underneath and trap bongsao Brian: Redmond is an idiot
he doesn't have answers that is why you never got them
Cheung is a odd teacher; he doesn't explain stuff he
tells you to do it And if you don't or question he
yells at you in front of your students He is being
investigated by the IRS; tax evasion is a *****. And
the FBI is interested in is white slavery ring --
prostitiution and drugs. Nelson: Also when doing lop
sao drill they say bon lop use two hands to contact
this is so easy to trap why use two hands to do job of
one? Brian: Because they're idiots; they violate basic
wck principles. Look bro, wck is a system of
principles that you can use as you see fit within a
certain context though.The context is layed out by our
wck physical structure. slt explains it all the
structure and the geometry I get blue in the face when
I show all the violations of Cheung biu,
Cheung(threading), biu lop punch.All to deal with one
hook!!!! lololol One of redmonds top students from new
york is in ohio somewhere in cleveland. im in columbus
and have a ****y car I'm trying to get a ride up there
to openly challenge him .honor cries for it. Redmond
insults me, insults you, insults my sifu Rahim and
insults the whole wck community by supporting a liar..
and he is so dirty. You don't even know the half of it
(or maybe you do lol im not sure how much you really
figured out or saw

[Simpleton]

Like I said I never wrote that that was copied and pasted from a man named Nelson one of Phil Redmpnds students.
:D :)

[Op108wc]

Why did you do that? Do you have a problem with Nelson?


Originally posted by Simpleton
Like I said I never wrote that that was copied and pasted from a man named Nelson one of Phil Redmpnds students.
:D :)

[Cang Long]

Originally posted by Simpleton

Never said you wrote it just that you posted it. Neither one is very prudent or relevant.

[Simpleton]

**** *****

[Op108wc]

Simpleton, Let me put it this way a speech is like a love affair. Any fool can start it, but to end it requires considerable skill.


**** ****

[sihing]

Okay, I've edited some posts on this thread. Some of the comments stated where totally unnecessary and uncalled for that have nothing to do with Martial Arts and Wing Chun. Simpleton, lets try to act like mature adults and keep the subject manner on topic, Wing Chun and Martial Arts...

James

[Op108wc]

Beware of false knowlege; it is more dangerous than ignorance. The man we called "Master X" today was formerly called a man with a one-track mind.


Originally posted by Cang Long
Once again another misconception perpetuated by the Robert Chu group years earlier on the wing chun mailing list. This is too laughable a statement. Many varied and distinguished martial artist have discussed the differences concerning TWC "entry technique" in contrast with Hung Fa Yi's awareness of Saam dim yat sin 3 points 1 line.

[Simpleton]

Just curious are you male or female you seem very sensitive not a putdown just wondering who I am talking to

[Op108wc]

Elton, male.

What is there to prove?

If you're playing for fun, don't get too psyched up and don't put your ego on the line; that attitude just ruins everyone's game.


Originally posted by Simpleton
Just curious are you male or female you seem very sensitive not a putdown just wondering who I am talking to

[Hungman]

Originally posted by Cang Long
These old let me emphasize old Rumors has been played out time and time again you seem to disagree with Robert Chu but your actions are remeniscent of his and how he too is quick and willing to brake Mo Duk denouncing other Masters and Families long before your little post here.


1. Robert Chu also said this years ago in front of many witnesses. It made no sense for him to try to build himself up by putting others down then as it makes no sense for you to try to come in here years later with the same story trying to impress others with this heresay. So are you just another one of Robert Chu's mouthboxers trying to spead the same old rumors?


2. Once again another misconception perpetuated by the Robert Chu group years earlier on the wing chun mailing list. This is too laughable a statement. Many varied and distinguished martial artist have discussed the differences concerning TWC "entry technique" in contrast with Hung Fa Yi's awareness of Saam dim yat sin 3 points 1 line. You yourself stated


Why not take the time to learn the truth instead of spreading rumor and gossip as to why you perceive Hung Fa Yi as similiar except for the fact there is more two it than what you perceive or heard. If you care to read some thoughts on the subject direct your attention to one particular thread by a qualified Yip Man instructor and his interpetation and perspective of the 2 systems. Read thread entitled My First Learning Experience Under Grandmaster Garrett Gee Then get proper instruction on HFY.


Hi guys, noises can not only be frightening, they can also be serious distractions when you are trying to concentrate on something. Learn to respect the sounds and noises you hear and try to tune out those that distract you unnecessarily. In other words, lets forget about that Robert Chu and his BS.

[Simpleton]

Hi guys, noises can not only be frightening, they can also be serious distractions when you are trying to concentrate on something. Learn to respect the sounds and noises you hear and try to tune out those that distract you unnecessarily. In other words, lets forget about that Robert Chu and his BS.

Sounds good to me lets add Phil Redmond to that list

[JamesHFYofAZ]

If one keeps ego out of their chatting, then one can express themselves with openness and without offending others. I've seen how an individual with attachments to others i.e. always attacking one person/family/style/ect... they become obsessed, it become a ego issue and if one is not maid self aware of this action, all others see this individual as a hypocrite in the realms of the true essence of Martial Arts.
Directed:
I believe that you arrogance in self is displayed in your writing; you tend to clam your self first. Further more, you should choose your battles more carefully; our issues with PR are attachments-ego issues and never float well on forums or in public. An adult would handle their problems quietly as to not taint either parties’ reputations or futures within MA. KARMA and ALL! Since this is your choice to do what ever you wish, you may be disband if heckling is all you do, We as martial artist do not need this type of controversy here.
Personal Attacks are low even for bottom dwelling low life’s (not you) with nothing better to do.

[Simpleton]

Get a grip

[Hungman]

Originally posted by Simpleton
Get a grip


Hey...you might have a superior attitude! That's cool.

[Hungman]

Originally posted by Op108wc
Elton, male.

What is there to prove?


Hey Elton, you're DA MAN!

[Craig]

Simpleton a lot of people have given you negative feedback re your posts and views on Phil Redmond. You have effectively lost the respect of many members of this forum which means that when you bag someone the other forum members take no notice of it. If you want to give you point of view re other martial artists and or systems you really need to be a lot smarter about it for people to take you seriously. You can defame TWC, Phil Redmond and anything else you like and I can't take you seriously because it seems to me that you aren't able to maintain an adult level of conversation.

[t_niehoff]

**I don't like posting on this forum but sometimes things need to be clarified so that "rumors" don't persist.

canglong wrote:

These old let me emphasize old Rumors has been played out time and time again you seem to disagree with Robert Chu but your actions are remeniscent of his and how he too is quick and willing to brake Mo Duk denouncing other Masters and Families long before your little post here.

**There is genuine irony here -- talk of actions that involve breaking Mo Duk by denouncing other "masters and families" by doing the exact same thing!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Simpleton
William cheung runs dope and prostitutes in HK still to this day.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Robert Chu also said this years ago in front of many witnesses.

**I've NEVER heard Robert or anyone assoicated with Robert say anything of the kind. If you weren't there when this was allegedly said, then you are spreading gossip and rumors.

It made no sense for him to try to build himself up by putting others down then as it makes no sense for you to try to come in here years later with the same story trying to impress others with this heresay. So are you just another one of Robert Chu's mouthboxers trying to spead the same old rumors?

**Can't you make a point or disagree with someone without bringing Robert or what you call his "mouthboxer's" into the discussion? BTW, what is a "mouthboxer" anyway? Someone that posts hearsay on the internet?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Simpleton
He actually watched cheung develop his jong entry technique(one reason we know hfy is from twc not the other way around).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. Once again another misconception perpetuated by the Robert Chu group years earlier on the wing chun mailing list.

**No, it's not. This was reported by Zopa on the WCML(I was a party to the discussion, so I remember it) -- he indicated that in the 70s he was at a karate tournament or demo assocaited with the karate tourney, and saw first-hand some karate practitioner using that entry technique, a tournament-karate technique, effectively against William. Zopa claims that after that, Cheung began teaching it as part of his system. Take the story for what it's worth. My point is that it wasn't Robert or the "Robert Chu group" that started this but Zopa.

This is too laughable a statement. Many varied and distinguished martial artist have discussed the differences concerning TWC "entry technique" in contrast with Hung Fa Yi's awareness of Saam dim yat sin 3 points 1 line. You yourself stated
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am now learning yks but yks uses the same ygkym as leung sheung does. So not much is differant except there is more 2 it, everything makes sense,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why not take the time to learn the truth instead of spreading rumor and gossip

**Splendid advice that we *all* should follow.

as to why you perceive Hung Fa Yi as similiar except for the fact there is more two it than what you perceive or heard. If you care to read some thoughts on the subject direct your attention to one particular thread by a qualified Yip Man instructor and his interpetation and perspective of the 2 systems. Read thread entitled My First Learning Experience Under Grandmaster Garrett Gee Then get proper instruction on HFY.

**I agree with you completely -- if someone is interested in HFY, they should get proper instruction. As to what makes someone a "qualified instructor", I recently wrote an article about that for wingchunkuen.com.

**I hope this clarifies some of these rumors.

Best regards,

Terence

[Simpleton]

Originally posted by t_niehoff
**I don't like posting on this forum but sometimes things need to be clarified so that "rumors" don't persist.

canglong wrote:

These old let me emphasize old Rumors has been played out time and time again you seem to disagree with Robert Chu but your actions are remeniscent of his and how he too is quick and willing to brake Mo Duk denouncing other Masters and Families long before your little post here.

**There is genuine irony here -- talk of actions that involve breaking Mo Duk by denouncing other "masters and families" by doing the exact same thing!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Simpleton
William cheung runs dope and prostitutes in HK still to this day.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Robert Chu also said this years ago in front of many witnesses.

**I've NEVER heard Robert or anyone assoicated with Robert say anything of the kind. If you weren't there when this was allegedly said, then you are spreading gossip and rumors.

It made no sense for him to try to build himself up by putting others down then as it makes no sense for you to try to come in here years later with the same story trying to impress others with this heresay. So are you just another one of Robert Chu's mouthboxers trying to spead the same old rumors?

**Can't you make a point or disagree with someone without bringing Robert or what you call his "mouthboxer's" into the discussion? BTW, what is a "mouthboxer" anyway? Someone that posts hearsay on the internet?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Simpleton
He actually watched cheung develop his jong entry technique(one reason we know hfy is from twc not the other way around).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. Once again another misconception perpetuated by the Robert Chu group years earlier on the wing chun mailing list.

**No, it's not. This was reported by Zopa on the WCML(I was a party to the discussion, so I remember it) -- he indicated that in the 70s he was at a karate tournament or demo assocaited with the karate tourney, and saw first-hand some karate practitioner using that entry technique, a tournament-karate technique, effectively against William. Zopa claims that after that, Cheung began teaching it as part of his system. Take the story for what it's worth. My point is that it wasn't Robert or the "Robert Chu group" that started this but Zopa.

This is too laughable a statement. Many varied and distinguished martial artist have discussed the differences concerning TWC "entry technique" in contrast with Hung Fa Yi's awareness of Saam dim yat sin 3 points 1 line. You yourself stated
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am now learning yks but yks uses the same ygkym as leung sheung does. So not much is differant except there is more 2 it, everything makes sense,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why not take the time to learn the truth instead of spreading rumor and gossip

**Splendid advice that we *all* should follow.

as to why you perceive Hung Fa Yi as similiar except for the fact there is more two it than what you perceive or heard. If you care to read some thoughts on the subject direct your attention to one particular thread by a qualified Yip Man instructor and his interpetation and perspective of the 2 systems. Read thread entitled My First Learning Experience Under Grandmaster Garrett Gee Then get proper instruction on HFY.

**I agree with you completely -- if someone is interested in HFY, they should get proper instruction. As to what makes someone a "qualified instructor", I recently wrote an article about that for wingchunkuen.com.

**I hope this clarifies some of these rumors.

Best regards,

Terence Actually I like Robert Chu that post was a post made by Phil Redmond I just copied and pasted it

[t_niehoff]

I don't care who likes whom or whatever. I'm past caring about most of this. My only interest is that when mention is made of "Robert"s group" -- or some nasty alternative term (Robert's mouthboxers) for the same members -- it may refer indirectly to me, as I'm associated with Robert or may lead some people to believe it refers to me. This is part of the problem of painting with a wide brush (generalizing). So when such references are made, my interest is to make certain that my position is clear because in reality there is no such thing as "Robert's group." While Robert has many individual students, we do not all share the same opinions either with each other or necessarily with Robert.

Personally, I don't want to be a party to these sorts of discussions. So I would prefer -- and appreciate -- if everyone just left such references out of their discussions.

Regards,

Terence

[JamesHFYofAZ]

Jacks back huh!
The rumors came from poeple ("roberts group") who all happen to learn from robert chu! Tony never spoke with rumor spreading gossip, just defending with the best abilities avalible! Its not our fault that perticular group causes the problems with other WC families!!!

[HFY Eagle]

Tony and James

It's really all about karma and how one conducts oneself.

When a tree falls in the woods and I am not there to hear it does it mean that the tree did not fall?

No, it means that I was just not there to hear it. In some cases, there may have been tens of people that not only saw the tree fall but heard it with their own ears. To them, that experience cannot be denied in as much as other people want to claim it did not happen and is just rumor...

When there are trees falling left and right you might not be there to hear everyone…

If you conduct yourself properly, with Mo Duk, you will not have to worry about what people think and the forest will be very quiet and still.

HFY Eagle

[Cang Long]

Terence,
It is indeed an admirable character trait that you are always there and ready to come to the defense of your Sifu. Without quoting your entire second post it would seem your concerns lie with reporting the truth in these type of discussions when it comes to you or things that might indirectly involve you. To that end we agree. This particular time the discussion of Robert Chu was brought upon by statements refenced by Simpleton that were also witnessed on more than one occassion by HFY members. As for reporting the truth just let me say it concerns me just as much it does you and since your post doesn't directly contradict my original statement I'll leave it at that. Secondly saw first-hand some karate practitioner using that entry technique, "that entry technique" does someone have a patten that we should know about, this is like saying if someone expresses a jong hand(asking hand) they must be a wing chun practitioner. I Share your frustration yet for us (HFY Family) the most frustrating part of this entire ordeal is having to explain to supposed martial artist that looking at a technique is not the same thing as understanding the principle which in effect can look the same on the surface yet be completely different in concept as is the case here.

"The Robert Chu group" is a reality of internet forums I am positive you and others have used HFY in gerneal terms encompassing all members attributing something to me or others that didn't necessarily apply it goes with the territory. It is not out of the question to portray people with varying philosophies but similar affiliations in this light.

As for Zopa the WCML and their nonesense the way in which it was run leaves any and all questions of validity open so it was used to argue a similar point in my original post to Simpleton and nothing more.

I do agree this topic is far from one that deserves much more space than what it already occupies.

[Op108wc]

Simpleton, you like to play "Heads up."

Are you a poker player?


Originally posted by Simpleton
Actually I like Robert Chu that post was a post made by Phil Redmond I just copied and pasted it

[Chusauli]

I don't get why my name is mentioned here so often. I feel it's rather silly. If you want to talk, you can always email me or call me up.

I'd like a chance to clear things up for a change.

If you have questions, let's chat.

Cang Long, Tony, others, I don't know you, but I salute you in the martial arts way. What is your beef? We can discuss these civilly.

[Op108wc]

Simpleton, whick hakka? Bak Mei, Lung Ying or Nam Tong Long....can you tell us where did you get your info from?


yks and koolo from the fung
family; sap yee san sik fung gar; fung family 12
separate techniques, each of the 12 small sets has 3
skills in it so you get a total of 36 interrelated
motions. This is not simple. Don't be fooled its some
of the best wck ive found, in fact it is Profound.
Leung Jan was a genius there is a lot of bs from koolo
like Robert chus 40 points or the 22 points which is
koolo wck mixed with hakka but the real deal which is
never taught publicly is one of the best.

[Phil Redmond]

Originally posted by Simpleton
Actually I like Robert Chu that post was a post made by Phil Redmond I just copied and pasted it
That post was never made by me. Robert Chu and I have recently exchanged emails and he knows how I stand.
PR

[Simpleton]

Originally posted by Chusauli
I don't get why my name is mentioned here so often. I feel it's rather silly. If you want to talk, you can always email me or call me up.

I'd like a chance to clear things up for a change.

If you have questions, let's chat.

Cang Long, Tony, others, I don't know you, but I salute you in the martial arts way. What is your beef? We can discuss these civilly.
In all honesty this nonsence was started by Phil Redmond.
Smile in your face and stab you in the back. He does not suffer from a inferority complex but rather a superority complex inflated notion of his style be the best and the rest were taught wrong on purpose.

[Phil Redmond]

Originally posted by Simpleton
Hi guys, noises can not only be frightening, they can also be serious distractions when you are trying to concentrate on something. Learn to respect the sounds and noises you hear and try to tune out those that distract you unnecessarily. In other words, lets forget about that Robert Chu and his BS.

Sounds good to me lets add Phil Redmond to that list
Hey Dave, this is getting old. I've never mistreated you or done anything bad to you. The only thing I can think of for your attacks on me was the fact that you wanted it all right away. You wanted to fight students who weren't ready to fight full contact yet. You've made judgements on a system that you don't fully understand. One year of training doesn't make you an expert in WC. Remember offering to come back to help me with begginers. What happened to make you so bitter? I have emails from you saying that WC is no good for fighting. You're intitled to your opinion. Since you feel that WC is no good what's the purpose of continuing the attack on me and my Sifu? Why not simply move on. You went on to study boxing. Now you say that you are in a kickboxing gym. Happy training and I wish you all the best.
PR

[Simpleton]

The only thing I can think of for your attacks on me was the fact that you wanted it all right away. Originally posted by Phil Redmond
Hey Dave, this is getting old. I've never mistreated you or done anything bad to you. The only thing I can think of for your attacks on me was the fact that you wanted it all right away. You wanted to fight students who weren't ready to fight full contact yet. You've made judgements on a system that you don't fully understand. One year of training doesn't make you an expert in WC. Remember offering to come back to help me with begginers. What happened to make you so bitter? I have emails from you saying that WC is no good for fighting. You're intitled to your opinion. Since you feel that WC is no good what's the purpose of continuing the attack on me and my Sifu? Why not simply move on. You went on to study boxing. Now you say that you are in a kickboxing gym. Happy training and I wish you all the

The only thing I can think of for your attacks on me was the fact that you wanted it all right away Not true I trained every day and was willing to put my time in you were just to sloppy of a teacher to forgetful. Did not want to spend twenty years learning a system that took you twenty years Briam lewdany learnd twc in 8 months I know it takes many years to master but you hold students back for money
PR You are so full of sh-t I wanted to fight students that were not ready, I wanted to fight your senoir students full contact or even atleast spar don't go around telling people I want to beat up your smaller untrained students you know that is bs Car, Derrick Randy, You, that bob guy and so on but they are all scared to fight and you know that is the truth you go around trying to make me look bad. with that BS you are just trying to protect your rep? When I did spar light contact with your best students they could not fight ,They were just not trained to fight just drills forms and chi sau and theroy. they even told me there was no sparring before I got there. You are a joke do not patronze me You made a enemy with all that nonsence you have spit out your mouth .

[JamesHFYofAZ]

[/QUOTE] looking at a technique is not the same thing as understanding the principle which in effect can look the same on the surface yet be completely different in concept[/QUOTE]
Nailed it!
Some may have what looks close to but lack the concepts, such as the three and a half point concept. ;)
Secondly, HFY doesn't jump when we apply an entry tool, it goes against the concept and it is considered lack of control over time and space.
HFY Eagle,
I understand what you mean,

“It's really all about karma and how one conducts oneself.”
((I've seen these events happen, in my own life as well as others))
“When a tree falls in the woods and I am not there to hear it does it mean that the tree did not fall?”
“No, it means that I was just not there to hear it. In some cases, there may have been tens of people that not only saw the tree fall but heard it with their own ears. To them, that experience cannot be denied in as much as other people want to claim it did not happen and is just rumor...”
“When there are trees falling left and right you might not be there to hear everyone…
If you conduct yourself properly, with Mo Duk, you will not have to worry about what people think and the forest will be very quiet and still.”
((History has a way of repeating its self, and the effect of the negative karma that's sent out is that one can't escape repercussions of the past.))

[t_niehoff]

This will be my last post on this subject --

While I understand, and can agree, that the outward similarity of movements (techniques) doesn't necessarily reflect what is going on at a deeper level, nevertheless that similarilty often can suggest some connection or link between the practitioners or methods in question. For example, when a person (or group) incorporates something (movement, concept, etc.) from another person or group it most often undergoes some modification, so the "concept" may change. A more specific example: if I take some "technique" from you and adopt it, it may not accurately reflect how you use it (or the underlying concept you have of it). In that case, there does exist a link between me and your group even though you would be correct in pointing out that there are significant differences underlying our use of that movement. This is why I don't think the argument "it may look similar but what we are doing is different" doesn't disprove some possible relationship. In fact, it is very common for methods that are related to have similar movments but significant differences in "underlying theory." I am only offering this explanation so that you might better understand how others *may* when seeing similarlity of movement between HFY and TWC think that there may be some connection between the two -- and why pointing out HFY's unique conceptual basis doesn't refute the possiblity of a connection. You need to take a different approach to do that.

Lastly, I am not a hindu or buddhist, so I don't believe in the notion of karma. What I do believe in is free will, free choice, and that we are all responsible for our actions. Karma doesn't force people to keep rehashing the past, reopening old wounds, etc. Nor does it force people to misattribute statements to others. Let it go. Move on. If you disagree with some view, I'm sure you have the intellectual abilities to explain your position without dragging others into it.

Best wishes,

Terence

[Simpleton]

It is lovely to see people like Kenneth Chung, Augustine Fong, Robert Chu, Hendrik Santo, Phillip Redmond and others experiencing the roasting that they get on this forum, complete with slanderous accusations and embarassing anecdotes. I say this given the fact that it was primarily them and their groups of students that started this form of internet libel aimed at their perceived competition years ago, and it has now come back around to haunt them (Chung was beaten up and ran from a rematch/hides from Chan and his people, Fong is fake and Joy is a fat, old bag of wind that can't even put his pants on, Chu runs his mouth and then runs from challenges, Santo talks too much and has nothing to back it up, Redmond runs his mouth and runs from a challenge, etc.). I am enjoying watching them squirm under the same scrutiny they have always claimed to put others under. As the saying goes - what goes around comes around", or as John Lennon so aptly put it, "Instant Karma's Gonna Get You!" Or perhaps an older quote, "Do unto others..." is more appropriate in this case.

[Op108wc]

Originally posted by Simpleton
Santo talks too much and has nothing to back it up,

As the saying goes - what goes around comes around", or as John Lennon so aptly put it, "Instant Karma's Gonna Get You!" Or perhaps an older quote, "Do unto others..." is more appropriate in this case.


Yup!

[Op108wc]

Is Hendrik's lineage the original WCK or the original Fukien Weng Chun "County" White Crane? It seems they don't go together, like two sides of a coin. Wong Wah Bo Wing Chun and Yik Kam Fukien Weng Chun "County" White Crane + Emie are two distinct arts completely, both having different sets and sources. If Hendrik is concerned with the motives behind his thoughts, words, and claims, the best thing is to answer some questions so that he develops clearer self-awareness.

[Phil Redmond]

Originally posted by Simpleton
It is lovely to see people like Kenneth Chung, Augustine Fong, Robert Chu, Hendrik Santo, Phillip Redmond and others experiencing the roasting that they get on this forum, complete with slanderous accusations and embarassing anecdotes. I say this given the fact that it was primarily them and their groups of students that started this form of internet libel aimed at their perceived competition years ago, and it has now come back around to haunt them (Chung was beaten up and ran from a rematch/hides from Chan and his people, Fong is fake and Joy is a fat, old bag of wind that can't even put his pants on, Chu runs his mouth and then runs from challenges, Santo talks too much and has nothing to back it up, Redmond runs his mouth and runs from a challenge, etc.). I am enjoying watching them squirm under the same scrutiny they have always claimed to put others under. As the saying goes - what goes around comes around", or as John Lennon so aptly put it, "Instant Karma's Gonna Get You!" Or perhaps an older quote, "Do unto others..." is more appropriate in this case.
Firstly, I have NEVER run from any body in my life and never will. Secondly, slanderous posts will not be tolerated.
PR

[Simpleton]

Firstly, I have NEVER run from any body in my life and never will. Secondly, slanderous posts will not be tolerated.
PR
You know that is not true what about Jason Lau? and Cedric

[Op108wc]

Laugh and the world laughs with you. LOL!

How's your sense of adventure?



Originally posted by t_niehoff
Lastly, I am not a hindu or buddhist, so I don't believe in the notion of karma.

[mario bava]

Hello Everyone

This thread has once again shown the lack of ettiquette apparent in the martial arts community - Grandmaster William Cheung apparently called a p**p by Robert Chu, countless Wing Chun sifu's insulted and ridiculed, etc etc.
The thread also highlghted some statements that may have been made in the past - that Robert Chu has apparently been making inaccurate representations for some time about Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun. When I pair this apparent disrespect along with cloudys constant attack on Wing Chun lineages, I am not shocked that these two guys 'know each other'.
On the whole, I feel that these two people who have shown disrespect to Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun and other Wing Chun lineages have no idea concerning Mo Duk - from this moment on, all their fancy talk no longer cuts ice with the Hung Fa Yi family. They have revealed who they are and what they stand for. Simple as that.

Cheerio, Gary

[Simpleton]

Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:07:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Phillip Redmond" <sifupr@yahoo.com> Add to Address Book
Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more
Subject: Fake Fong
To: Ryan@yahoo.com

Submissions Needed Marty Goldberg and Adam Williss and I are putting these anti-Augustine Fong posts together are looking for submissions. We are calling it, "Fake Wing Chun Teahouse." It will strive to be all-political and cover fake Wing Chun as a whole (solely on Augustine Fong's family/lineage/master).

Phillip Redmond
World Wing Chun Kung Fu Association
TWC Academy of Michigan
Toronto Wing Chun Academy

[Phil Redmond]

Originally posted by Simpleton
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:07:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Phillip Redmond" <sifupr@yahoo.com> Add to Address Book
Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more
Subject: Fake Fong
To: Ryan@yahoo.com

Submissions Needed Marty Goldberg and Adam Williss and I are putting these anti-Augustine Fong posts together are looking for submissions. We are calling it, "Fake Wing Chun Teahouse." It will strive to be all-political and cover fake Wing Chun as a whole (solely on Augustine Fong's family/lineage/master).

Phillip Redmond
World Wing Chun Kung Fu Association
TWC Academy of Michigan
Toronto Wing Chun Academy
Dave, I know Marty Goldberg but I never heard of Adam Williss
This never came from me. I'm requesting that you be banned from this forum. You really need help.

Also, there is no signature on my yahoo address. I know nothing about Augustine Fong and would have no reason to defame him. Many of us here know what you're trying to do.
PR

[Simpleton]

Hey Dave, this is getting old. I've never mistreated you or done anything bad to you. The only thing I can think of for your attacks on me was the fact that you wanted it all right away. You wanted to fight students who weren't ready to fight full contact yet. You've made judgements on a system that you don't fully understand. One year of training doesn't make you an expert in WC. Remember offering to come back to help me with begginers. What happened to make you so bitter? I have emails from you saying that WC is no good for fighting. You're intitled to your opinion. Since you feel that WC is no good what's the purpose of continuing the attack on me and my Sifu? Why not simply move on. You went on to study boxing. Now you say that you are in a kickboxing gym. Happy training and I wish you all the

The only thing I can think of for your attacks on me was the fact that you wanted it all right away Not true I trained every day and was willing to put my time in you were just to sloppy of a teacher to forgetful. Did not want to spend twenty years learning a system that took you twenty years Briam lewdany learnd twc in 8 months I know it takes many years to master but you hold students back for money
PR
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are so full of sh-t I wanted to fight students that were not ready, I wanted to fight your senoir students full contact or even atleast spar don't go around telling people I want to beat up your smaller untrained students you know that is bs Car, Derrick Randy, You, that bob guy and so on but they are all scared to fight and you know that is the truth you go around trying to make me look bad. with that BS you are just trying to protect your rep? When I did spar light contact with your best students they could not fight ,They were just not trained to fight just drills forms and chi sau and theroy. they even told me there was no sparring before I got there. You are a joke do not patronze me You made a enemy with all that nonsence you have spit out your mouth .

[JamesHFYofAZ]

"This will be my last post on this subject”
((It's never your last post. Maybe on this thread but not on the subject))
"While I understand, and can agree, that the outward similarity of movements (techniques) doesn't necessarily reflect what is going on at a deeper level, nevertheless that similarity often can suggest some connection or link between the practitioners or methods in question."
((And that means little, its surface level detail. I have two arms and two legs as you, but we are nothing alike. I one can't express the concept but use a tool that’s similar, they think they got it but the one knowing the concept can help fine tune the tool to its maximum efficiency.))
"For example, when a person (or group) incorporates something (movement, concept, etc.) from another person or group it most often undergoes some modification, so the "concept" may change."
((The concept will change unless they are given all the information (not likely) that encompasses, your group should know this best of all.))
"If I take some "technique" from you and adopt it, it may not accurately reflect how you use it (or the underlying concept you have of it). In that case, there does exist a link between me and your group even though you would be correct in pointing out that there are significant differences underlying our use of that movement. This is why I don't think the argument "it may look similar but what we are doing is different" doesn't disprove some possible relationship. In fact, it is very common for methods that are related to have similar movements but significant differences in "underlying theory." "
((Done and Done! All wing chun has similar movements some where, this is a well known fact. The concepts and principle that may or may not lack are what are noticed. So if one says we have that too, from there I could tell by description and/or viewing to see if it's truly the same. IF IT'S NOT, THEN IT'S NOT, NO DEBATE!!!))
"Lastly, I am not a hindu or buddhist, so I don't believe in the notion of karma. What I do believe in is free will, free choice, and that we are all responsible for our actions. Karma doesn't force people to keep rehashing the past, reopening old wounds, etc. Nor does it force people to misattribute statements to others. Let it go. Move on. If you disagree with some view, I'm sure you have the intellectual abilities to explain your position without dragging others into it."
((A. You don't have to believe or understand and karma is still going to be there.
B. Karma doesn't force anything, and your free will always exists. The more free will that is expressed in a negative format will come back on ones life just as the positive will as well.
C. When someone misattributes a statement, this creates a karma effect, not the other way around, IT'S CAUSE AND EFFECT, NOT AFFECT THE CAUSE!))
Thanks for dropping in!!!

[Op108wc]

O Hendrik couldn't make whipped cream out of water, and no matter how hard Hendrik flogs it, whips it, beats it, shakes it, kicks it and prods it with a sharp stick, "Fukien Weng Chun COUNTY White Crane + Emie" aka Hendrik's SLT his latest Ooop...., just doesn't spring to life. The fact is -- "Official Chinese records state that Red Boat Wing Chun and Fukien Weng Chun COUNTY White Crane are two distinct arts."



Originally posted by mario bava
When I pair this apparent disrespect along with cloudys constant attack on Wing Chun lineages,


quote:Originally posted by Levi (KFO)

Question for WC Families

yellowpickachu/hendrik/phenix/hsanto stated on another thread that IF it were proven that "SLT/SNT is a creation of White Crane Weng Chun of Fujian and Emei 12 Zhuang of Emei" that it would "serves as a light to the history being told by YKS, Cho, Ip Man, Koolo... That the Ancestors are not lying to us about the creation of the art"

I have a question to any practicioners out there with knowledge of their traditions:

Does the YKS family believe that "SLT/SNT is a creation of White Crane Weng Chun of Fujian and Emei 12 Zhuang of Emei"?

Does the Cho family believe that "SLT/SNT is a creation of White Crane Weng Chun of Fujian and Emei 12 Zhuang of Emei"?

Does the Ip Man family believe that "SLT/SNT is a creation of White Crane Weng Chun of Fujian and Emei 12 Zhuang of Emei"?

Does the Koolo family believe that "SLT/SNT is a creation of White Crane Weng Chun of Fujian and Emei 12 Zhuang of Emei"?

Thanks in advance. I'm just trying to make sure no one is misrepresented.

-Levi

[Craig]

I find it insteresting that Simpleton has been banned from this sight. I have seen more interest in reading his posts than at any time on this forum. Do most of the readers watch Jerry Springer as well?

Simpleton appeared to me to have some knowledge about martial arts and whilst he seemed very frustrated with some people, appeared to honestly care about martial arts. I feel he missed a massive chunk that not everyone does MA to beat others and that for some their are other aspects other than violence that they follow, not everyone cares who has the best or most faultless technique - some are just happy doing what the do. I don't really know why he has been banned other than perhaps he wasn't able to kerb his habbit of getting off topic and discussing non MA issues.

It's interesting to note I think that when anyone on this forum questions lineage, ability, fighting style and amount of contact directly relating to a specific style or club that everyone has an opinion and is quite happy to defend the " best " about their system/club. However when people (including Simpleton) post sensible questions and topics for discussion they get very few responses or views.

As I said - perhaps this is a Jerry Springer kind of crowd. I think it is a poor reflection on this forum and it's "silent" members that the views greatly outweigh the posts on "heated" discussions that are off topic, and are few and far between when genuine questions are asked.

[sihing]

I think you got it all wrong Craig... Yeah, Simpleton did post on some subjects to get little response, that's nobody's fault but his (who's could respect a man like that after the attacks he posted on here), the majority of his post were personal attacks towards others, that were totally uncalled for and IMO not good for this or any forum of any quality. Take at look at his most recent work on the KFO forum and you will basically see what this guy is all about, he's got problems, so lets leave it at that and say good riddance to him.

James

[mario bava]

Hello Op108wc

How are you doing? I see that your and Levi's questions remained unanswered yet again. It is ridiculous how this cloudy subtely claims that his lineage is the original and that all other Wing Chun lineages have got it all wrong. It is also ridiculous how this man never seems to answer any of the questions put to him on this forum. Questions such as

'Why do official Chinese records state that Fukien White Crane and Wing Chun are two distinct arts?'

'Why do all WIng Chun lineages contain SLT, CK and BJ while cloudy has just one long SLT?'

Cloudys inability to answer reveals the fact that the true answers to those questions will not support his baloney - when will cloudy produce the facts to prove otherwise?

Cheerio, Gary

[Craig]

Originally posted by sihing
I think you got it all wrong Craig... Yeah, Simpleton did post on some subjects to get little response, that's nobody's fault but his (who's could respect a man like that after the attacks he posted on here), the majority of his post were personal attacks towards others, that were totally uncalled for and IMO not good for this or any forum of any quality. Take at look at his most recent work on the KFO forum and you will basically see what this guy is all about, he's got problems, so lets leave it at that and say good riddance to him.

James

I think that perhaps I didn't word my post well enough, I certainly agree with what you are saying and was trying to make a point that whilst he was here interest in this sight (based on views) seemed to sky rocket. Every sight has it's voyeurs and it was more a point that it was good to see this sight get busier ( albiet for the wrong reasons) and that perhaps those intently viewing should join in and express theirs views as well.

I can see in rereading my post how it appears a bit pro simpleton which was not my intention to be pro (or anti). Anyway I guess I'm just hoping that the forum doesn't get back to "normal" if that means one or two posts a week...

Happy to leave it at that as you put it as well and look forward and upward so to speak.

Regards Craig
:) :) :rolleyes:

[Op108wc]

!

[Op108wc]

When Hendrik ( Cloudy ) does not say what he feels, he generates confusion for himself and confusion for others. Avoiding the truth defeats the purpose of speech as communication.


It is also ridiculous how this man never seems to answer any of the questions put to him on this forum. Questions such as

'Why do official Chinese records state that Fukien White Crane and Wing Chun are two distinct arts?'

'Why do all WIng Chun lineages contain SLT, CK and BJ while cloudy has just one long SLT?'

Cloudys inability to answer reveals the fact that the true answers to those questions will not support his baloney - when will cloudy produce the facts to prove otherwise?