Right Action

[alakso]

In the Eightfold path there is Right Action. Under Right Action is "Do Not Kill". But my friends how is one to survive with out killing? Weather I harvest a Moose to feed my family for the winter, or grow crops don't I still Kill? I see no distinction between killing an animal or a plant. What if a person lives where meat in a major source of food, say Alaska. Isn't our survival and the survival of those we love more important? This reminds me of the Ten Commandments. But most people think the commandment is "Thou Shalt not Kill", but in reality it is "Thou shalt not Murder". I hunt for survival and DO NOT enjoy killing and have even cried while animals have died at my feet. How do I reconcile this dilemma? alakso

[alakso]

Greetings my friends. After much comtemplation I feel that I can no longer kill animals. It pains me much to take a life. And the memories of the suffering I've caused weights heavily on my spirit.
Hunting has been an intergral part of my life and my peoples survival since time immemorial. When I'm hunting there are no illusions. Nature does that my friends. For me I love being in the Wilderness as I know and understand how and why animals act the way they do, no illusions. But as soon as I come back into contact with people my illusions start to manifest themselves rapidly. It's a shame that most people have ulterior motives or hidden agendas, weather consciously or unconsciously. And yes I have also been very guilty of these very things. I think it stems from the illusion of control. Because I can no longer cause pain and suffering I'm trying real hard to not eat meat. I know how animals are treated before they are slaughtered and I want no part of that Karma. At least when I killed an animal it was done quickly and out of reverence to these great creatures. I always smudged (I use an Eagle feather given to me by a Medicine Woman after my first Sweat Lodge) these animals with Sweet grass, Sage, and Tobacco. The reason for this is I believe that the smoke from these plants will carry my prayers to the Creator. I also use the Eagle feather because the Eagle flies closest to the Creator. This fall I'm going to hunt with a video camera. Hopefully this will be the best of both worlds. The hunt without killing. Also as a Guide who takes people hunting and fishing I just lost my main source of income. This may prevent me from traveling to SanFran to study HFYWC with GM Gee. I accept whatever ramifications my decision not to hunt or kill animals will bring. My life is a Spiritual journey and I feel I have a very old spirit. Hopefully this step of not killing will lead to a greater spiritual awareness...alakso

I'm going to start another thread about Ch'an Buddhist Spiritual Diets.

[passing_through]

Dear Alakso,

Please visit the following link before you throw your life all out-of-whack...

http://zbohy.zatma.org/Dharma/zbohy/Literature/7thWorld/c14p1.html

In particular (and I quote):

Unless we are dealing with cannibalism or the killing of any creature that possibly can pray, nonviolence should not be thought to extend to food sources. There, nonviolence means non-cruelty. Animals, whether food sources or not, must be treated humanely.

Many Buddhists around the world eat meat or fish and nobody can have a hamburger or a tuna fish sandwich without something's having been killed. Human beings evolved as meat and fish eaters and no fault attaches to such a diet. Modern vegetarians, however, in their own gentle ways are sometimes fond of regarding meat eaters as coldblooded murderers.

Yet, vegetarians require large tracts of land to grow their food and many animals may be killed or allowed to die of starvation when their habitat is destroyed by the plow or by the destruction of forests. Many insecticides are used to grow fruits and vegetables; and insecticides, by definition, kill living things.

Though a well balanced vegetarian diet is definitely preferred, the Chan man eats whatever foods are good for him and whatever foods he can afford to buy, and he does this without criticizing others. In many Buddhist countries, dog meat is considered good food. The thought of Fido roasting in someone's oven may make us sick and/or sad, nevertheless we are obliged to respect other people's culinary preferences even as we decline their invitations to dinner.

You should understand that the Precepts are there for people who need them - and that the above referenced website focuses on Chan as spiritual path and religion for those that need Chan to be both. Chan is more than a simple label for an attitude or philosophy or way of doing things...

From your description of how you hunt, I don't see any violence. I see you operating in harmony with, and in respect of, nature. The precepts act to help guide your spiritual development. They are there to get you thinking about why you do what you do.

Death is a part of life. Which is more human: kill an animal to eat it with respect and honor or let an animal starve to death in an overcrowded environment? Whenever you try to draw a line in the sand, it's not too hard to divide that line in half, too.

If you're thinkning about your livelihood... here's something else to ponder:

http://zbohy.zatma.org/Dharma/zbohy/Literature/7thWorld/c15p1.html

Unfortunately, a lot of things get written about Chan that are from a cultural point of view. Ultimately you have to look at things, examine them from your own conscious, and make your own decision.

Sincerely,
Jeremy R.

[alakso]

Thanks Jeremy for the info. I really enjoyed it especially seeing how a guide was used as an example.

I feel a great inner peace knowing I don't need to hurt anything, and I'm very content with my decision. But I guess I should quantify my statement of "no longer kill animals". While that is the ideal I also understand that everything is changing, and that the only constant is change. So I may have to kill again to eat (while living in AK.) or defend myself (Bears), etc.. It just brings up such strong emotions for me. Watching anything suffer is like looking into the mirror of my own spirit's pain.

The thing that bothers me about helping other people hunt is the total lack of respect most of these people have for life. It's hard for me to stomach a total lack of respect for these wonderful and beautiful animals that I LOVE dearly. I make less than 5K a year so losing 2-3K from guiding isn't that big of a deal. As long as I eat, have a warm place to sleep, and can see the Sun rise everyday I'm content. Plus this isn't the first time I've quit hunting and guiding. Even before I knew anything about the Budda's teachings I felt a deep sadness when I've killed no matter weather the reason was just or not. I believe that all animals are a part of the spiritual world and know and see things that most of us can't. As an example a few years ago I shot a Doe Deer. I didn't mean to, I was hunting Moose and she stood up 10 feet away from me in the grass. Being a good hunter and totally focused on hunting I raised my rifle and put her in my sights. Before I could think I'd pulled the trigger and shot her. I felt so bad watching her fall down with blood spurting from her side. I went over and held her while she was dying. We looked in each others eyes as she died and she let me know it was OK (I have seen this look many times from dying animals). That very special creature was donated to the Tribal Seniors Kitchen so the Elders could have some traditional food. It's experiences like this that have touched my spirit. I understand that dying is a part of life, and by embracing death we embrace life.

A quote by Grasshopper from the old Kung Fu TV series. "How do we not know that our death will not be the greatest experience of our lives?"

[JamesHFYofAZ]

Alakso,
I enjoyed reading your post and feel what you talk about.
I had an experience not to long ago where I was driving home one late night after work. As I turned on to a street that passes a park by my house, a cat darted out into my path. I tried swerving, but still managed to strike the animal. I slammed on the brakes, did a U turn, and jumped out to check the condition of the cat. I ended up running over the back end of her/him, but it was still living. As I tried to catch it and tend to its wounds in some way or another, it scampered towards the curb side drain, and down it went. With no way to help this animal that was Shirley going to die now, I could only wander about its suffering. That poor creature, I felt bad, especially when I caught eye of the flyer few day later.
Hunting for sport and hunting for food, I fail to see the point of sport. However, hunting for food is something that is not frowned on by the laws of nature to my knowledge. In the Native American culture of the past hunting was a spiritual event. In fact, many cultures give thanks to gods, some thank the creatures that just gave their lives to help others, and some are just thankful for natures gift.
Let me ask, I have an apple in my hand, if I eat it, will it still be an apple?