Generating power/energy

[Armin]

Hi to all of you!

Maybe some of your remember a short discussion about Frank Demann and his 'Tao Concepts' a couple of weeks ago.

Frank Demann originally came from the Leung Ting WT. His profession was physiotherapy . So one day he started comparing what he knew from his profession with what he learned in WT. And he devellopped WT further, until he had something totally new: tao concepts.

Frank Demann is well-known for writing very interesting texts. So, here's one text out of his online-book I'd like to share with you.

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Chapter 12: wrong assumptions and illusions

(...)

1. The arm has to be pushed forward from the middle of the body - then the whole body is behind the punch

Stand in front of your partner. Let your arms hang loose at your sides. Now touch your partner's chest fast with the tip of your fingers. As fast as you can. Did you take your arm on the center first? No? Good. Because right now you did the fastest and shortest movement forward with your arms, that you are able to. It's one movement: lift the arm, hit and done. And this very relaxed. You could move your arm first to your center, too. This would be two movements. Arm to the center and punch. And you'd have to contract to do the movement correctly. Does this make any sense? And is it truly a natural movement?

Let yourself fall forward into a puch-up position. How do you hold your arms? Right! That's the best way of absorbing and transfer power. When doing push-ups, take your hands to the center. Can you really build up more power or do you fell, cautiously said, a little handicapped? How do mothers 'push' their baby-carriages? Climbing a hill - do mothers put their ellbows in or out?

(...)

The body is never behind the punch, if you force your ellbow to the center and punch with parallel hips and shoulders. There's only one way to get the body behind the punch: rotating. The punch starts, the shoulders follow, the hipps follow the movement and finally the feet adjust to the rest of the body. At the end of the movement, it would be best, if you stood sideways like in the longpole-form. Teh one who forces his shoulders and hips parallel all the time, denies the way his body works. That's art, too. But not very clever one.

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There's a whole lot more of that, but sorry, I don't have the time right now to translate it.

What do you all think about it? Does it make sense or not? Where is Frank Demann right, where is he wrong???


Armin.


PS: This time, I'm gonna wait to tell my opinion - do your work by yourself!!! :D

[sihing]

Originally posted by Armin
Hi to all of you!

Maybe some of your remember a short discussion about Frank Demann and his 'Tao Concepts' a couple of weeks ago.

Frank Demann originally came from the Leung Ting WT. His profession was physiotherapy . So one day he started comparing what he knew from his profession with what he learned in WT. And he devellopped WT further, until he had something totally new: tao concepts.

Frank Demann is well-known for writing very interesting texts. So, here's one text out of his online-book I'd like to share with you.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chapter 12: wrong assumptions and illusions

(...)

1. The arm has to be pushed forward from the middle of the body - then the whole body is behind the punch

Stand in front of your partner. Let your arms hang loose at your sides. Now touch your partner's chest fast with the tip of your fingers. As fast as you can. Did you take your arm on the center first? No? Good. Because right now you did the fastest and shortest movement forward with your arms, that you are able to. It's one movement: lift the arm, hit and done. And this very relaxed. You could move your arm first to your center, too. This would be two movements. Arm to the center and punch. And you'd have to contract to do the movement correctly. Does this make any sense? And is it truly a natural movement?

Let yourself fall forward into a puch-up position. How do you hold your arms? Right! That's the best way of absorbing and transfer power. When doing push-ups, take your hands to the center. Can you really build up more power or do you fell, cautiously said, a little handicapped? How do mothers 'push' their baby-carriages? Climbing a hill - do mothers put their ellbows in or out?

(...)

The body is never behind the punch, if you force your ellbow to the center and punch with parallel hips and shoulders. There's only one way to get the body behind the punch: rotating. The punch starts, the shoulders follow, the hipps follow the movement and finally the feet adjust to the rest of the body. At the end of the movement, it would be best, if you stood sideways like in the longpole-form. Teh one who forces his shoulders and hips parallel all the time, denies the way his body works. That's art, too. But not very clever one.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There's a whole lot more of that, but sorry, I don't have the time right now to translate it.

What do you all think about it? Does it make sense or not? Where is Frank Demann right, where is he wrong???


Armin.


PS: This time, I'm gonna wait to tell my opinion - do your work by yourself!!! :D

Armin,
I can agree with some of what Frank has said, no doubt. Then the question is,"is the Wing Chun straight punch when performed correctly the most powerful punch"? No I don't think it is, but it does have power and it can be released more often in a short short amount of time, plus one can actually move through space at the same time when executing multiple alternate punches. Lots of advantages, as compared to the twist or torque method, where one is stationary for a moment when executing it. In essence we are talking about apples and oranges here. When I introduce newcomers to the art of WC, I teach them the punch and explain the 4 basic advantages:

1) the punch is a fast moving motion, meaning it doesn't require the practitioner to be physically fast to perform it effectively against someone else.
2) the punch is non-telegraphic, meaning there is little wind up or preliminary motion to telegraph that it is coming towards the opponent (using the surprise element here, "its the one they don't see that knocks them out").

these two points make you in essence faster than you really are in regards to your opponents POV.

3) the punching action allow simultaneous movement while performing it, meaning it is more efficient and effective in combat

4) the punching action allows one to interrupt their movement easier so one can be able to adapt to situations faster, i.e. going from an offensive punching movement to a defensive deflection action.

Concerning the above, none of these points require one to be abnormally powerful or fast. The average person already has enough power/strength and natural speed to make the punch effective, the only thing they need to do is develop the proper coordination and body mechanics to punch correctly.

I think we all know that boxers throw fast & hard punches, no question there, but it is not the only method available to achieve similar results. IMO WC offers an alternative and is easier to learn and easier to maintain once the skill is achieved.

James

[Armin]

Hello sihing,

nice answer, though I will put it different. Hm, well, see. Frank Demann wrote this text as an answer to a discussion in different forums of how to generate the most power (sorry, should have given this detail, too). Over 90 % of my fellow-ving tsun dudes answered, that you have to put your arm to the center and keep hips and shoulders frontal.

That's simply not true. From a scientific point of view, Frank Demann really describes the best way of generating power. So why don't we use that? And why don't we use what he describes as the shortest distance (from the side to the center)???

Ok, let me tell you the answer the way I see it. Frank Demann mixes two different things.

1st: We do punch from the side - if the arms are at the side. Just take a look at the first punch in chum kiu. This punch travels from the side forward to the center of an imaginary attacker. At the same time, the right hand travels to the own center and finally punches from there.

Why this? In a self-defense situation, your arms hang loose at the sides, as he correctly states. Your first movement should allow you to do two things at the same time: already the first counter-attack - and to build up your structure (see next point).

2nd: For defense and fighting-back, we need a strong structure. First and most importantly, we need a strong structure to handle the attacker's power. If we loose the structure, there will be no defending any more. And we won't be able to fight back.

Well, it's the 'Ving Tsun defending theory' that we defend our own room from out of the center. The whole system follows this idea - the structure we build up works best with defending and attacking the center. Using the same structure and trying to use a defensive position from e. g. boxing would work, too - but not nearly as good.

That's what Marc McYoung means, when he says, that mixing different systems doesnt' make sense. Every system has it's own kind of structure, that leads to own kinds of using this structure (his example: ving tsun-flavoured karate).

Now, let's take a look at the punch Frank Demann describes. Yes, it will work that way. Maybe. Sometimes punches don't hit - imagine you didn't hit and than you stand sideways to the attacker! You don't have any reserves now, because you put everything into one single punch. You gave 100 %. But in Ving Tsun, we say, you should only give 80 % and keep the rest 'in your pocket'.

Or, to put it into other words: You give all your money away, instead of saving a part. That surely isn't economical. Keeping the punch shorter with less movement of the body would cost less energy - and it would be easier to recover the positions. The way of punching, Frank Demann describes, violates directly against the whole idea Ving Tsun was build on.

IMHO - Frank Demann took Ving Tsun and rebuilt some kind of shaolin-kung out of it.


Armin.