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Hungman
10-17-2005, 10:23 PM
RESEARCHING THE ORIGINS OF WING CHUN



YIP MAN
YIP CHUN


Researching the history of Chinese Kung Fu is very difficult. This is due to a general lack of written records. For every Kung Fu clan, clan history was passed down orally from teacher to disciple. History was thus passed down from generation to generation by word of mouth. This process involved some who were poorly educated, or had poor memories. There were also those who were not interested in history, and were half-hearted in passing it down. Much was lost here. Some people borrowed from heroic characters in popular Chinese novels. They invented and exaggerated, and gave an air of myth and mystery to their founding fathers.
After several generations, the facts of history will be lost to hearsay and legend. Look at Southern Kung Fu clans. They padded their founders with fable, so all the founders either came from SIU LAM monastery (= SHAO LIN monastery) or Mo Dong. They were all Buddhist monks or nuns, or Taoist priests. So, suddenly, the glamour and hype of martial arts history was forced upon these peaceful places and nice people. It became a joke.

There are legends about Wing Chun Kung Fu clan, retracing the period from Grandmaster Leung Jan. These are legends because there are no comprehensive written records. The general story goes like this:
Wing Chun was founded by Yim Wing Chun. She studied under Ng Mui of SIU LAM. This means that Wing Chun originated in Siu Lam monastery. Yim Wing Chun married Leung Bok Chau, and she followed him back to his home town in Siu Hing, Canton. Wing Chun Kung Fu was passed down to Leung Jan through Leung Bok Chau.

There are two different stories here. One says that Leung Bok Chau taught the techniques to Leung Lan Kwai, Wong Wah Bo, Leung Yee Tei and others. Wong Wah Bo and Leung Yee Tei then passed them on to Leung Jan. The other story says that Leung Jan and the others studied together under Leung Bok Chau. These stories about the origin of Wing Chun are consistent with an article by the late Grandmaster Yip Man on the origin of Wing Chun and also with a 1972 article I wrote for the 'Hong Kong Contemporary Martial Arts Circle'. They are also broadly in line with the general story on the origin of Wing Chun.

In 1982, I was in Fatshan, and paid a visit to Pang Nam (Blackface Nam). He can be said to be a very senior member in the Fatshan Wing Chun Kung Fu clan. Pang Nam was a senior in years, rather than in the hierarchy. He was already eighty. Our discussion turned to the origin of Wing Chun , and Pang said, 'Wing Chun was brought to Fatshan from the north by a person called Tan-Sau Ng (Palm-up Arm Ng - a nickname). Yim Wing Chun is only a storybook character.' He sounded very sure.
Later, I unexpectedly found some information about Tan-Sau Ng, recorded in old literature on the history of Chinese opera. This information is closely connected to the origin of Wing Chun.

There was a book by one Mak Siu Har - A study on the history of Cantonese Operas (now kept in the Hong Kong City Hall Library). In it there was one paragraph, roughly as follows:
Before the reign of Yung Cheng (Manchu emperor, 1723-1736), the development of Cantonese opera was very limited. This was due to defective organization and unclear division of labor. In the years of Yung Cheng, Cheung Ng of Wu Pak, also known as Tan-Sau Ng, brought his skills to Fatshan and organized the Hung Fa Wui Koon ( now the Chinese Artist Association). From there, Cantonese opera made great progress.

The book also records:
Besides being very accomplished in Chinese opera, Cheung Ng was especially proficient in the martial arts world.

Another piece of information appears on page 631, Volume three of the book A history of Chinese Opera, by Mang Yiu, first published by Chuen KayLiterature Publishers in 1968

For some reason, Cheung Ng could not stay on in the capital, so he fled and took refuge in Fatshan. This was during the reign of Yung Cheng. This man, nicknamed Tan-Sau Ng, was a character 'unsurpassed in literary and military skills, and excellent in music and drama'. He was especially proficient in the techniques of Siu Lim. After settling down in Fatshan, he passed on his knowledge in traditional opera and martial arts to the Hung Suen (Red Boat) followers, and established the Hung Fa Wui Koon in Fatshan. Today, Cantonese opera groups revere him as Jo-Si (Founding Master), and refer to him as Master Cheung.

From the two passages above we learned:
Cheung Ng, also known as Tan-Sau Ng, not only excelled in martial arts, but actually taught the techniques himself. He was called 'Tan-Sau Ng' because of his 'tan sau……..peerless throughout the martial arts world'.

Comparing the legend of Yim Wing Chun with the information on Tan-Sau Ng, I consider the latter more acceptable in our examination of Wing Chun's origins.
The reasons are as follows:
1) Cheung Ng brought his skills in Fatshan during the reign of Yung Cheng. This was forty to fifty years before the great fire of Siu Lam during the reign of Kin Lung (1736-1795). It was almost a hundred years before the legend of Yim Wing Chun, which fell within the Ham Fung (1851-1861) and Dao Kwong (1821-1850) years.
2) Tan Sau is a technique unique to Wing Chun.
Cheung Ng was famous for his tan sau. He actually taught martial arts in Fatshan Hung Suen (Red Boat). And Fatshan was the breeding ground of Wing Chun.
3) Some years ago, my Kung Fu clansman Pang Kam Fat told me that the Wing Chun stance is best used on boats for stability. Looking further, the various sets of martial arts strokes and practice areas are closely related to practice on narrow boats.
4) Before the skills were handed down to Leung Jan, the people connected, including Leung Lan Kwai, 'Painted Face Kam', Wong Wah Bo and Leung Yee Tei, all belonged to the Hung Suen (Red Boat).

Yet it is still very difficult to verify the origin of Wing Chun with so little material about Cheung Ng. So, before we find more information and proof, we can perhaps make following assumptions:
During the reign of Yung Cheng, Wu Pak actor Cheung Ng, also known as Tan-Sau Ng, for some reason fled the capital and went to Fatshan. He organized the Hung Fa Wui Koon at Tai Kay Mei, Fatshan. Apart from teaching traditional operas, he also taught the techniques of martial arts, and was called Master Cheung. The martial arts skills he taught already had the principles and techniques of Wing Chun martial arts.
Perhaps they can be called incomplete or inadequately practiced Wing Chun martial arts. A hundred years passed in dissemination (mainly in Hung Suen) and development. Much effort was made by Yim Wing Chun, Leung Bok Chau, Wong Wah Bo, Leung Yee Tei and others. Wing Chun became a complete and mature set of martial arts, which spread and flourished under Leung Jan.

The above assumption eliminates the mythical padding towing Chun, and presents an orderly progress of events. It also provides a trail which can be followed by people interested in the history of Wing Chun Kung Fu.

Cang Long
10-18-2005, 05:43 AM
Although this has yet to be translated it is rather interesting in that Chan Guo Ji reports that his family history record the burning of the Southern Temple occurred during the year 1795. Currently working on getting this translated among other things ....

http://www.sc168.com/file/sdnews/sdnews/200411090028.htm

Sixth paragraph second line.

BennyMeng
10-18-2005, 02:02 PM
When it comes to Wing Chun history and origins, this is what I tell my students in relation to the late Grand Master, Ip Man:

Ip Man was an excellent martial artist but that does not mean he took the time to research history. What most Ip Man lineage students and teachers use for the history of the lineage was a short article that Ip Man wrote about the history. All the late Grand Master could relate was the oral legends that he received from his teacher - which is mostly based on White Crane Weng Chun oral legends.

Loyalty is an important virtue in martial arts but there is a distinction between real loyalty and blind loyalty. Just because Ip Man wrote the article on history does not mean that no one can challenge it. As a matter of fact, Ip Chun - Ip Man's son and has a history background - being educated took the time and effort to dig into the history his father recorded as was quoted above in Hungmen's post. Ip Chun was one of the first to talk about "Tan Sau Ng." His conclusions were more objective rather than biased. So, basically, he dug up the ancestor of Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun - which is also the origin of Wing Chun based on the VTM's research.

But then, history is only one reference point. Without studying the HFY system, one cannot have certainty in what is Wing Chun and what is the origin of Wing Chun.

Regarding the Chinese website, I have personally visited the Chun Wah Shun village, visited his tomb, met his descendents and exchanged techniques. Since Chun Wah Shun, himself, was not actively involved in revolutionary activities he doesn’t have connections to the deeper aspects of Shaolin connections to Wing Chun. In other words, his Wing Chun is more of a modern, public expression of Wing Chun descending from the Red Boat.

When I spoke with the great-grandson of Grand Master Chan, it is my conclusion that his lineage really mixed together Wing Chun, Weng Chun, and animal systems. There was a strong emphasis on techniques and application rather than theory or concepts. The website article that Cang Long linked is full of legends and myth mixed together rather than real research. Remember, just because something is from China now doesn’t guarantee that it is quality information. There’s just as much misinformation and assumption in China as anywhere else. A traditional art like Wing Chun was not allowed to be practiced openly until the last 20 years or so. The Wing Chun people in China have less information and resources to go by. When I was in China in the late 1990s, they were just starting to get the Bruce Lee craze. That kind of tells you they’re about 20 or 30 years behind the West. The reality is that the Wing Chun Community in China has to start from scratch and is fairly young. And, just like what you see in the West, when there is a lack of information people start making things up.

BennyMeng
10-24-2005, 03:18 PM
Researching the origins of Wing Chun:

Hung Fa Yi Family Tree

Shaolin Era
Southern Shaolin (Weng Chun Tong/Hung Fa Ting)
Yat Chum Daai Si

Anti-Qing (Hung Ga Society) and Opera Society Eras
Cheung Ng
Chan Jing Lin
Chan Sai Yuan
Chan Bo Jung

Revolution and Red Boat Eras
Hung Gun Biu
Cheung Gung

Anti-Imperialism Era
Wang Ting
Dr. Wang Ming

Public Era
Garrett Gee

Ip Man Family Tree

Southern Shaolin Temple
Wing Chun Legends

Red Boat Era
Wong Wah Bou
Leung Yi Dai

Public Era
Leung Jaan
Chun Wa Shun
Ip Man

Gu Lao Family Tree

Southern Shaolin Temple
Wing Chun Legends

Red Boat Era
Wong Wah Bou
Leung Yi Dai

Public Era
Leung Jaan
Gu Lao Village (Wong Wah Sam, Yik Ying, Leung Bak Chung, etc.)

Pan Nam Lineage

Southern Shaolin Temple
Yat Chum
Cheung Ng

Red Boat

Wong Wah Bo; Leung Yi Tai

Public Era
Leung Jan
Chun Wah Shun
Chan Yiu Min
Jui Chao
Pan Nam

Cho Ga Wing Chun

Southern Shaolin Temple
Legends:
Ng Mui
Miu Shun
Yim Yee
Yim Wing Chun
Leung Bok Lao

Red Boat
Yik Kam

Public Era
Cho Shun
Cho Dak Shing

==============================================

The above family trees are examples of historical ancestors for several lineages of Wing Chun from their own family representatives. All the commonalities is that all Wing Chun comes from Southern Shaolin and was filtered through the Red Boat to the public. Whatever Hendrik is proposing - that Wing Chun is from Emei - is totally his own idea, as one can see from the above genealogy. That's the privilege of living in a democratic society - you can say and write whatever you please but that doesn't make it real. Next time, I will be looking at things primarily from a Shaolin point of view: what is Wing Chun's identity.

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