Dai Dung Fong

[mario bava]

Hello There

It is wonderful reading the experiences of those who have been instructed in the Advanced SNT by GM Gee. The whole discussion has raised a very good topic.

Wong Wah Bo and Leung Yee Tai are well known figures in Wing Chun circles - in their day, they were known actors as well as martial artists and were very much public figures. However, there are two other men from the martial arts community of those times who did not have a public role to play. These men were Rebellion Society members engaged in dangerous underground activity against a vicious and cruel foreign invader, and are known as Hung Gun Biu and Dai Dung Fung.
The art that is attributed to Dai Dung Fung does not seem to be taught to the public at any large scale. Another thread on this forum has mentioned that Pa Fien Lien lineage comes from Dai Dung Fong, via the Grandmaster Chu Chung. The thread mentions that "the knowledge of Dai Dong Fung passed to the brothers Der Gwok-Leung & Der Gwok-Cheung and then they taught Pao Fa Lien and the system proceeded from there" - however, it seems that very little of this system is available to the public and therefore seems to be passed on in private from person to person. There is even the suggestion of the possibilty that Dai Dung Fongs' original knowledge could be lost. Therefore, at this stage, the Rebellion Society fighter Dai Dung Fong and his role in China's history remains almost unknown in the Wing Chun community. But the question is:

What has this got to do with the Advanced SNT?

Hung Gun Biu preserved the highly advanced knowledge of the Wing Chun system for future generations during those troubled times, and now GM Gee is ensuring that his efforts never become a waste by revealing the system to the public. This is the link to the possible story of Dai Dung Fongs' lost art, and why it is a wonderful and important effort that GM Gee is making on behalf of his ancestor Hung Gun Biu. The fact that GM Gee is revealing this information is of course great for those who are fortunate to receive it, but now knowing the history of both Hung Gun Biu and Dai Dung Fong, it should be clear that when a student receives the high level technology of Hung Gun Biu and Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun, this knowledge also comes with a great responsibilty - that it is never lost, changed or misused, because that would be no service to one of the men who kept the system alive - Hung Gun Biu.

Cheerio, Gary

www.hungfayiireland.com

[Op108wc]

Pao Fa Lien Wing Chun Lineage


This style is said to have its roots in the Shaolin Monastery and was taught by a Buddhist monk whose nickname was Big East Wind. On leaving the Shaolin Monastery Dai Dung Fung travelled south to Ching Yuen village. The Buddhist monk was a member of a secret society whose aims were to overthrow the Ching Government.

Dai Dung Fung aka Big East Wind (founder) > Der Gwok-Leung & Der Gwok-Cheung (two brothers) > Liu Tat-Sung (aka Pao Fa-Lien) > Chu Chung

Dai Dung Fung was a member of a secret society.

Der Gwok-Leung and Der Gwok-Cheung are two brothers. One of them was a magistrate.

Liu Tat Sung aka Pao Fa Lien – The two brothers adopted a son whose name was Liu Tat Sung.

Chu Chung began his studies under Liu Tat Sung at the age of 14 and had learned the complete system before leaving for Hong Kong in 1950’ In Foshan the style was always known as Wing Chun but on his arrival in Hong Kong he found other Hung Suen styles of Wing Chun being taught so to differentiate his style from the others he named it after his teacher Dai Dung Fung. -- " Pao Fa Lein Wing Chun Kung Fu"

In public, Grandmaster Chu Chung has never wanted to promote his style and he's a private person.

Chu Chung’s Sons -- Chu Win-Chi, Chu Weng-Cheun, Chu Weng-Chung, Chu Weng-Wah, Chu Chi-Ho

Chu Chung’s Stundents -- Ling Han-Wan, Ling Han-Jet, Lam Kam-Chiu, Lam Kam-Yoen, Lam Kam-Day, Lam Wan, Lam Ping, Chung Sun-Wah, Chung Man-Kong, Tseng Hing-Kong, Chu Sui-Sing, Wong Day-Gun, Pong Sui-Gun, Yu Sui-Ming, Leung Yip, Lau Gwok-San, Fok Ling and others....



http://cstang.www3.50megs.com/wing9.jpg

[Op108wc]

Chu Chung began his studies under Liu Tat Sung at the age of 14 and had learned the complete system before leaving for Hong Kong in 1950’ In Foshan the style was always known as Wing Chun but on his arrival in Hong Kong he found other Hung Suen styles of Wing Chun being taught so to differentiate his style from the others he named it after his teacher Dai Dung Fung. -- " Pao Fa Lein Wing Chun Kung Fu"


Correction: he named it after his teacher Liu Tat Sung

[Cang Long]

Interesting as new research uncovers more of the once hidden past the proof of the shaolin connection to Wing Chun and Wing Chun's connection to secret societies becomes more and more evident. Because of the records affirming The Big East Wind's existance and connection with secret societies there are now two branches originating directly from within the southern temple Hung Gun Bui and Dai Dong Fung. While the later more publicly known versions of Wong Wah Bo and Leung Yee Tai are coming from the Red Boat era.

With the research of the Ving Tsun museum and organizations like it combined with written Chinese history and the oral histories of Wing Chun much of this past is just now being revealed to the public but never the less is becoming public knowledge for people interested in uncovinging this most interesting topic.

http://www.wingchunkuen.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=97

[Marcelo-RJ]

Something must be clarified:

Was Dai Dung Fong contemporary to Cheung Ng, or was Dai Dung Fong contemporary to Hung Gun Biu?

If Dai Dung Fong was a Shaolin Monk (1600's), how come he and Hung Gun Biu were colleagues, since Hung Gun Biu was into the Hung Gun Wui (1800's)?

Marcelo

[duende]

Where'd you get 1600's??? :confused:

The Shaolin temples started waaaaay earlier and continued way later...


Perhaps you should do some research on the Boxer Rebellions and the prior history involved so that you can get a beter understanding.


http://www.shaolin.com/kungfu_martialarts_timeline.aspx

[Marcelo-RJ]

Hi, Duende!

> Where'd you get 1600's???

I got it from the family tree at hungfakwoon.com (http://www.hungfakwoon.com/familytree.htm)

Also, it's stated that Ng Mui could not be a Shaolin nun and a Red Boat contemporary because the Temple was burnt as far back as (+ or less) 1650 and the Red Boat Opera - to which Hung Gun Biu had a conexion - was founded at the beginning of the 19th Century.

So: was DDF a Southern Shaolin monk or a revolutionary colleague of Hung Gun Biu?

Marcelo

[duende]

Yeah... but that is just a brief rundown of OUR history (meaning Hung Fa Ting) for quick public consumption...

Dai Dung Fong was not Hung Fa Yi. But his history gives another clear example of how WC was not only taught at the Shaolin Temples, but originated there.

It also gives a another example, outside our history, of how WC was used in the Secret Societies.


As far as who's contemporary he was.... just do the math. It's all there. Hung Gun Biu.

In regards to Shaolin temples, remember... there were five main ones we know of at this time. Of those five, some of them fluxuated between active and inactive depending on regional political climate and other issues.

There is still so much to uncover.

[William E]

Marcelo

As you know, much of the information pertaining to Wing Chun and many martial arts was not well known to the public. The information regarding Dai Dung Fung and his place in Wing Chun history was not something that had been promoted publically at all. As the pieces start to come together, the picture becomes more clear.

Both Dai Dung Fong and Hung Gun Biu were secret society members during the same time, early 1800's. You need to trace back three generations to Cheung Ng and even further to the late 1600's and the Wing Chun Tong.


William E.

[Marcelo-RJ]

Yes, there are so many possibilities jumping out of DDF's Wing Chun... If he was a Shaolin Monk (as Pao Fa Lien's tradition dictates) from a temple other than the by-then-burnt-to-the-ground Fukien Monastery, then it'd be possible that the Weng Chun Tong's knowledge was taken to that other Shaolin monastery by other survivor than Yat Chum Dai Si and Cheung Ng.
If he was *not* a monk (or, being a monk, if he did not learn Wing Chun within that other Shaolin temple), it'd be possible that he had learned Wing Chun from the same source as Hung Gun Biu or even from HGB himself.
The premise that is taking shape: DDF and HGB were not Red Junk actors like LYT and WWB. So, we have Red Junk Wing Chun and Revolutionary Societies Wing Chun.
Now, has anyone here seen Pao Fah Lien Wing Chun? If positive, what does it resemble the most: HFYWC or Ip Man Wing Chun?

[JamesHFYofAZ]

Marcelo,
So: was DDF a Southern Shaolin monk or a revolutionary colleague of Hung Gun Biu?
To help with the confusion, Dai Dang Fong was a Northern Shaolin Monk and his entry into the WC community was establish around the 1800’s by him traveling from the North to the South. So his knowledge of WC was learned through Southern Shaolin decedents within the Red Boat Era (1800’s), having joined secret society member’s in the 1800’s. Also, since the Southern Shaolin Temple was burned over a hundred and fourty years previous to his life time, one must take a look at history of WC closer to see that their were three generations between the 1600’s and 1800’s.
James

[Marcelo-RJ]

Hi, James, this was exactly my point: DDF could not be a Fukien Shaolin monk, since that monastery was burnt by the time he lived. So, thank you for clarifying he came from the Northern Temple (just like Yat Chum Dai Si did in the 1600's, by the way).

So DDF's Wing Chun was Revolutionary Societies' Wing Chun, and my curiosity grows: does it look like HFY or is it closer to Red Boat Wing Chun (Ip Man, YKS, Mai Gwei Wong etc)?

M.

[JamesHFYofAZ]

Marcelo,
With the Ip Man Family WC there is much confusion between so called traditional WC and Modified WC.
Regarding YKS even though they have Tan, Bong, & Fuk in their system, but their structures are much more different the IM WC that is one reason a lot of Main land WC are different then IM Hong Kong versions of WC.
For further confussion about Hendrik’s theory of WC comes from Emie and Fukien White Crane and also his clams WC Tan Sau comes from his water palm lineage. In other words, his claim is saying that his lineage is the oldest and most original as well as the mother of all WC. But the funny thing is that even Pao Fa Lien WC has also SLT, CK, and BJ in their system and goes against his claims, and Hendrik’s lineage only has SLT. Now does that make any sense to anyone?
Later, James

[duende]

Marcelo,

The only picture I know of of Pao Fa Lien is one of a man holding a kick position.

I had the same wonders as you, but unfortunately, you can't tell too much from the picture.

[Cang Long]

The premise that is taking shape: DDF and HGB were not Red Junk actors like LYT and WWB. So, we have Red Junk Wing Chun and Revolutionary Societies Wing Chun. Yes.

Secondarily we also have written Chinese history, Chinese culture, oral legend, and seperate from that there also exist attached to these men such as HGB and DDF secret society culture, tradition and history in all their various forms and they too must be accounted for in the vast research that is being done to go back in time to understand what we are actually looking at today.

[mario bava]

Hello Cang Long

Your last post hit the nail on the head again - more and more it looks like what everyone once accepted as the whole picture in regards to Wing Chun has many more layers to it. Hello James - it is fascinating to see that Hendrik still insists that his version of Wing Chun history is the truth. It may be so for his lineage, but not for the lineages of the heroic freedom fighters Hung Gun Biu and Dai Dung Fong. He still needs to understand that

(1) Wong Wah Bo - SLT, CK BJ

(2) Hendrik - Long SLT

(3) Chinese Records state that Wing Chun Kuen and Fukien White Crane are two disticnt arts

(4) Wing Chun Kuen and Weng Chun (county) White Crane are not the same.

Cheerio, Gary

www.hungfayiireland.com

[JamesHFYofAZ]

Gary,
This hendrik characters has developed a theory of WC coming from White Crain with out ever presenting any facts. This theory directly insults Shaolin and its decedents and his past few years of behavior with thousands of verbal insults post with out presenting any evidence or facts to back his claims. Now, with Dai Dong Fong also presenting Shaolin connection as well of SLT CK and BJ, this is already proving that he is incorrect with out even looking at the evidence readily available through WWB LYT/actors lineage.
With that said how the blank can hindrik make claims that go against oral history as well as facts by way of historical time lines and visual/physical evidence?
Talk later, James

[Savi]

I have copied this thread into the Pao Fa Lien Wing Chun forum as well...

Good efforts in continuing to preserve the knowledge and history of our cousin art in Wing Chun.

Savi.
Forum Admin.