Side Neutral Stance Question

[Savi]

Originally posted by sihing in the "General Conversation" forum
The one foot straight and one foot side angled is a Side Neutral TWC stance...
Speaking of TWC's Side Neutral Stance, James... I noticed on Phil Redmond's website at this link:

TWC Forms (http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/form.asp)

That the feet remain parallel, aside from the T-stance. Is there more than one way to do a Side Neutral Stance in TWC? If so, may I ask the reason for the particular alignments?

Or perhaps Phil could shed some light on this for me?

Thanks in advance!

[sihing]

Hi Savi,

Probably Phil would be the guy to ask these questions too. For me and the association I belong to, we do not have one foot pointed straight and one on a angle while in side neutral stances. Basically while in any stance we try to have both feet pointed in the same direction at all times, this allows perfect body unity to happen (therefore no twisting in the connecting joints). For example, what we call Left Side Neutral, the left lead would be out, with the feet, knees, hips, and trunk all pointed 45 deg to the right. Of course while fighting this may not happen perfectly, but that is the ideal. T-Stance is not considered a stance IMO, but more of a step, as we use the term T-Step to describe it. One would not want to stand in a position like this with the feet so close together for long as it is very unstable and promotes no mobility.

AS for the forms, the only form where the feet are parallel and do not move is in the basic Shil Lum Tao form. In the advanced version there is more footwork.

James

[Savi]

Thanks for the clarification. It is called "T-Step Transitional" on his website.

Basically while in any stance we try to have both feet pointed in the same direction at all times, this allows perfect body unity to happen (therefore no twisting in the connecting joints). For example, what we call Left Side Neutral, the left lead would be out, with the feet, knees, hips, and trunk all pointed 45 deg to the right.

1. How does this particular structural emphasis work against multiple attackers? Wouldn't you have to adjust both feet when a change in facing is required? And if so, is that accomplished with a "bracing" of the feet, or do you pick the feet up? Do you find that timing is affected differently in a particular case?

2. How does this particular structural emphasis impact the need to move from the inside (within the shoulders) to the outside (outside the shoulders) and/or outside to inside? I am guessing that is what the T-Step might be for, but if that is the case then at one point the TWC science demands the feet do not remain parallel in motion.

I recall back in my Ip Man/Moy Yat Ving Tsun days struggling with the fact that when I did SNT my feet had to be pointed inward. In CK, feet were only pointed inward when facing forward. Yet, in BJ it just didn't feel right to force my feet to stay pointed inward due to the footwork in the form.

[sihing]

Originally posted by Savi
Thanks for the clarification. It is called "T-Step Transitional" on his website.



1. How does this particular structural emphasis work against multiple attackers? Wouldn't you have to adjust both feet when a change in facing is required? And if so, is that accomplished with a "bracing" of the feet, or do you pick the feet up? Do you find that timing is affected differently in a particular case?

2. How does this particular structural emphasis impact the need to move from the inside (within the shoulders) to the outside (outside the shoulders) and/or outside to inside? I am guessing that is what the T-Step might be for, but if that is the case then at one point the TWC science demands the feet do not remain parallel in motion.

I recall back in my Ip Man/Moy Yat Ving Tsun days struggling with the fact that when I did SNT my feet had to be pointed inward. In CK, feet were only pointed inward when facing forward. Yet, in BJ it just didn't feel right to force my feet to stay pointed inward due to the footwork in the form.

Hi Savi,

Regarding point #1-Yes, you would lead with the feet and turn everything else simultaneously to face the attacker, but with multiple opponents, and people coming at you from different angels at the same time, you can use other tactics instead of having to face them like you would with a single attacker. No one can face all attackers at the same time, there's only one of us and many of them, so some sort of turning maneuver has to take place if facing is the thing that you want to do. We use this footwork and stance work allot in class as we like to end all the classes with a multiple spar, one student vs. multiple attackers. As the ranking of the student increases the attacks are more random and intense, so it works just fine.

I like to advocate the picking up of the feet when changing stances, like a tap dancer, as this type of changing step will work on all surfaces, but if you do twist or turn while maintaining contact with the floor this can be used also, you just have to be careful.

Basically the idea is to not have a twist in the body, like a boxer would do when throwing the rear hand (his rear foot will rise from the floor, the hips and shoulders turning with a torque motion). This is an off balance position IMO. Timing is different if you have to change the positioning of the feet, but the economy of motion is there to minimize any timing deficiency. For example, if I'm in a right side neutral, everything facing 45 deg left, and he throws a left hook to the head, I would have to turn everything to the left(45 deg) to be able to simultaneously hit and strike with the fist (facing the point of contact concept). This is all done simultaneously, with the feet initiating the turn. I could use Biu or Tan to deflect while stepping straight to the side and striking all at the same time.

Point #2-To move from the inside to the outside of the shoulders (or lead foot as we like to call it), we can use an exchange step rather than a t-step, which looks similar but are two different things. When cross armed (both of us have same leads) with your opponent, the general rule is to step to the inside of the lead foot. When parallel (both of us have opposite leads) with the opponent, the general rule is to step to the outside of the lead foot. Using the exchange step, you can stay within "trapping range" without having to go in and out of range, but change your orientation with the opponent. Usually used, but not exclusively, when opponent changes his centerline and an opening arises.


Hope this helps Savi..

James

P.S. Side Neutral stance are generally only used outside of the kicking range of combat, therefore the non contact stage of combat...Forward/Front foot stance (which is our neutral stance with the guard positioned along the knee line instead of down the center) are used when in contact with the opponent, the exchange stage, or when pursing the opponent (moving forwards in attack) or retreating stages (when moving away and regrouging).

[Phil Redmond]

The TWC side neutral stance has one foot pointing 45 degrees away from the opponent and one foot pointing at his center. Something like this. l /
We teach both feet at 45 degrees to beginners so they won't have their feet pointing all over the place.
PR

[Savi]

Thanks guys,

So generally, the use of the side neutral stance is from longer range and is intended to enhance one's mobility.

Do you find any difference in power connection from the side neutral stance for striking and/or bridging when you're actually in motion, ie picking up the feet versus bracing/sliding the feet?

One thing I learned over this past weekend is a deeper layer of HFY's Leung Yi Ma functionality in conjunction with the HFY body structure. This can be reviewed in the HFY forum under the latest thread for GM Gee's March workshop.

I found that if my knees and elbows weren't in unison while in motion, then that structural distortion negated my ability to properly deal with the bridge when there was forward energy. I also learned that if there wasn't any forward energy challenging my center of gravity, then it really didn't matter how I moved.

[Cang Long]

Instructor’s Training at the World Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Kung Fu Association Headquarters
Friday March 24th to Sunday March 26th, 2006
San Francisco, CA

First, I would like to say thank you to my Sigung, Grand Master Garrett Gee, for his time and efforts in sharing the treasure of Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun with the martial arts community. Grand Master Gee’s efforts and explanations of the nature of Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun continue to amaze and impress all genuine martial artists that have the good fortune to encounter his teachings.

I would also like to say thank you to my Sifu, Master Benny Meng, for granting me permission participate in the Instructor Training weekend. Without my Sifu’s input and efforts to develop my foundation in martial arts, along with continued discussion and training, I would surely get caught up in my own thinking.

Thanks to everyone that same to this year's Instructor's Training. The meals and conversations were great. I'm looking forward to the next one and everyone's continued growth.

If any of the following report is not clear, I take full responsibility for the miscommunication. The depth and wisdom of Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun is greater than I can hope to grasp in one encounter. In my experience, it often takes several exposures and layers of knowledge to truly “get it” when it comes to training in the Hung Fa Yi System Approach.

To all other workshop participants, please feel free to correct any mistakes or add any omissions as well as share your own experience and feedback on the workshop. It is only through interaction that we can all learn and grow along our path in martial arts.

Sincerely,
Jeremy R.

The overall focus of this year’s Instructor’s Training at the World Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Kung Fu Association Headquarters was focused on two areas of the Siu Nim Tau stage of Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun: Saam Sing Jong Kiu Sau and Ying Hok Bong Kiu Sau (I only attended one session on this block of instruction because of my travel schedule so any corrections are appreciated). These two areas are a part of the overall Kiu Sau logic and experience contained in the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun System. As a pre-requisite to training the Saam Sing Jong and Ying Hok Bong Kiu Sau, students must know the appropriate details, which are contained in the third section of Siu Nim Tau (referred to as Advanced Siu Nim Tau).

Grand Master Gee also covered the six major areas of Siu Nim Tau Certification for Instructors as well as Training Categories for Instructors. Again, the two lists below are from my notes and could be misrepresented. Please don’t take these two lists to heart.

Six Areas of Siu Nim Tau Certification for Instructors (in alphabetical order
1. Advanced Siu Nim Tau
2. Baai Jong Baat Bo Jin
3. Four Gate Defense
4. Kiu Sau
5. Paak Sau
6. Wing Chun Formula

Training Categories:
1. Initial Training with Grand Master Gee through Instructor Workshops
2. Training with own Sifu to fill in the gaps
3. Review and Quality Check by Grand Master Gee, introduction of teaching logic for students

Friday Night started around 6:00 PM, stopped for dinner at 7:25 PM, resumed at 9:39 PM, and concluded around 12:00. We discussed Single Hand Chi Sau, drilled the Advanced Siu Nim Tau, and discussed the history and differences of Kiu Sau & Chi Sau before the dinner break. Friday Night before the break also included a discussion on the difference between the Wing Chun Formula and the Sap Ming Dim concept. While related to each other, these concepts are each unique with a separate logic flow and physical expression.

After dinner on Friday night, Grand Master Gee shared some of his personal experiences with the Qigong cultivation practices within the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun System and some of his experiences with his own Sifu. Following that, there was a short business meeting which brought out some lively discussion. The Grand Master encouraged everyone to share their point of view during the weekend and over the next few weeks. Grand Master Gee stated that he wanted to hear both sides, saying “There’s always two sides but there’s still only one coin.” Grand Master Gee also encouraged everyone to get involved, saying that debate is both healthy and necessary to learn how to communicate in the future. Instructors have to have the ability to communicate to their students. Interaction is always better than staying reserved. When you interact, you share and test your own energy. This is one of the myriad ways that the concepts and methods of the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun System overlap between training the traditional art and living life, showing the depth and consistency of the system.

Saturday started promptly at 10:00 AM. The day started with more drilling of the Advanced Siu Nim Tau and time was spent on many of the key details in section three. The topic of Wing Chun Formula and Sap Ming Dim was revisited again and then the workshop focused on two types wing arm in Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun: Hok Bong Sau and Ying Bong Sau – Crane and Eagle. The Hok Bong Sau makes use of a bent wrist with the elbow parallel to the shoulder while the Ying Bong Sau makes use of a straight wrist with the elbow higher than the shoulder. Almost as many Wing Chun lineages use the Hok Bong Sau as used the Eagle Bong Sau. Often there is debate about the “correct” or “right” Bong Sau. From the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun System, each set of mechanics has a use based on knowing the right time, space, and energy. In the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun System, the Hok Bong Sau and Ying Bong Sau exist as part of Kiu Sau knowledge and experience. Fundamentally typing, Saam Sing Jong Kiu Sau puts the emphasis on developing the Hok Bong Sau while the Sei Dim Bun Kiu Sau puts the emphasis on developing the Ying Bong Sau.

Note: I write fundamentally above because you have to realize that the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun System is a process of moving from Wandering to Awareness to Focus. Often, if you say “this is about that” you find out later that “this” connects to “these over here” and “didn’t think of thems yet” and that “that” was just one moment in time and can easily change to another moment in time, which opens a new logic flow. Until you have a fundamental grasp of “this” – which requires both technical knowledge as well as actual, physical interaction – trying to go further will only be an act of frustration because you’re not clear on “this” in the first place.

As an example of this, Grand Master Gee mentioned that to become a Chan Master or a Martial Arts Master you have to go through actual experience. Most people receive things or experience things at a surface level. To preserve the art and system, Instructors have to go beyond the surface to understand cause and impact. It is important to know the tool in the beginning but you have to have action. You might start out learning how to use a sword but once you have skill, even if you’re not holding a sword, you still have the ability to express your skill with anything in your hand – or even nothing in your hand! This is possible because at a high level, your mind is more aware and can influence your reality.

The emphasis for Saturday was mostly on learning the progression and logic flow of Saam Sing Jong Kiu Sau from basic body mechanics to partner drilling. One of the key areas of focus was how to fully engage the body when punching by using the proper concept support. By the lunch break from 12:40 to 1:40, all the Saam Sin Jong Pre-Requisite Modules were complete and training the partner drills was ready to start. The whole group worked on the partner drills until 7:00 when it was time to break for dinner. After dinner, the group went back to the school at 10:30 for more discussion and cake – it was Grand Master Gee’s birthday celebration this past weekend as well. During the after-dinner discussion, Grand Master Gee asked individual instructors about their first experiences with the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun System. John Murphy - one of the senior students – shared his initial expose to Grand Master Gee and the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun System through his friend Mike. It was a real treat for all the new Instructor-Candidates to meet one of the long-time members of the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun family. John Murphy shared many stories of his early days. Matt Kwan, another long-time student came out but couldn’t stay late as it was his wedding anniversary that night; he did make back on Sunday to participate, however.

Personally, I felt it was very fitting to have some of the senior students sharing a few of the many, many stories of the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun family after the evening celebration of Grand Master Gee’s Birthday. What better way to show appreciate than by sharing meaningful experiences that only happened because of the common connection we all share – love for the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun System?

At 10:50, the group returned to Saam Sing Jong Kiu Sau drilling. At the end of the evening, I was called up to the front to give a review of the day’s training. I hope that what I was able to put together made sense to all the workshop participants. To all participants: if there was anything I left out, please let me know. I think we were all on information overload that evening, still processing a lot of information – both technical knowledge as well as body mechanics. The day ended at 2:10 AM. We still had one more module to complete in the Saam Sing Jong Kiu Sau for Sunday.

Sunday began at 10:00 AM with three repetitions of both Advanced Siu Nim Tau three times and section three. The rest of the morning was focused on training the Saam Sing Jong Kiu Sau. There was further discussion of theory and detail to help participants gain a better understanding of the nature, logic, and progressions within the Saam Sing Jong Kiu Sau block. At 1:30 we stopped for a lunch break.

The workshop continued at 2:48 with more Saam Sing Jong Kiu Sau. Most of the workshop participants were staying until 6:00 PM Monday night so it was decided to focus on covering the entire module of Saam Sing Jong Kiu Sau, which explains the amount of time devoted to training it.

Before moving to Ying Hok Bong Kiu Sau (aka Bong Laap Kiu Sau), everyone sat down and watched Sifu Brad Ryan and I performed about 10 minutes of Chi Sau vs. Kiu Sau. My personal background is in Chi Sau so it was a challenge for me to ignore my initial instincts and instead focus on using my forearm to control Brad’s bridges. In my previous Chi Sau training, there was not a lot of emphasis on using either the wrist or forearm – both were allowed to be used based on feeling, position, energy and leverage. I personally found that the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun focus on forearm training in Kiu Sau made a huge difference in application. When I kept Brad at a Kiu Sau timeframe, I could control him and felt safe from attack. However, Brad has very good Chi Sau skill and also managed put me into Chi Sau timeframes as well. I found that my own personal skill with Kiu Sau needs work as I wasn’t sure how to recover back to a Kiu Sau timeframe. Overall, I think the experience was a good one. I think it is useful for students to “mix it up” in a controlled energy format to see what is natural and what requires thought. Armed with my experience of Kiu Sau vs. Chi Sau, I have a new appreciation and understanding of Saam Sing Jong Kiu Sau. Following the

We then started working on the first two stages of Module One in of Ying Hok Bong Kiu Sau, getting the initial mechanics correct. We stopped for dinner at 6:45 because an evening class was getting ready to start.

Sifu Andy Kalish and I had flights out on Sunday Evening so we went from the restaurant to the airport.

This concludes my review on the Instructor’s Training Weekend. I’ve read over my notes once so far and plan to start transcribing them tomorrow. I tried not to focus on technical details I experienced above as I don’t want to share too much of my own experience with everyone too early.

My next post will focus on the different categories of Kiu Sau in a general sense. In the meantime, everyone with experience in bridging exercises are encouraged to post on this thread. I understand that on Monday the workshop participants had more free exchange. I'd like to read more about that!
So as pointed out by Sifu Roadruck and Krouch this past seminar explored the functionality of both the principles behind leung yi ma and bun yut ma and those of Saam dim yat sin as well these principles are essential for developing an awareness on how to advance against and oncoming opponent. originally posted by Phil Redmond
The TWC side neutral stance has one foot pointing 45 degrees away from the opponent and one foot pointing at his center. Something like this. l /What are the principles behind the side neutral stance?

[Phil Redmond]

If you look at the bottom of this page:
http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/form.asp
you will see examples of the side neutral stance. Our footwork is based on the Mui Fa Jong pattern. In TWC we only use the neutral stance to train forward energy and proper hand/arm placement in our first form. The side neutral stance is simply a front stance with the feet nearly parallel to each other. One purpose is to keep your opponent from kicking or shooting to a lead leg. Since TWC is Central Line as opposed to Center Line WC it works well.
PR

[Cang Long]

Our footwork is based on the Mui Fa Jong pattern. In TWC we only use the neutral stance to train forward energy and proper hand/arm placement in our first form. The side neutral stance is simply a front stance with the feet nearly parallel to each other. One purpose is to keep your opponent from kicking or shooting to a lead leg. Since TWC is Central Line as opposed to Center Line WC it works well. Probably read or heard this before but can't recall at this very moment so again Redmond Sifu what is the difference between Central Line and Center Line? What are the principles in TWC as to the guidlines for "proper hand/arm placement"?

[Rambler]

thanks for your help in understanding this stance also. I have learned a lot from your postings. Thanks again.

[Ali Rahim]

Originally posted by Phil Redmond
If you look at the bottom of this page:
http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/form.asp
Since TWC is Central Line as opposed to Center Line WC it works well.
PR

I have done "shaolin five animal" and "shaolin swordplay" for over thirty years now, and fighting off the shoulder about 25-30 degrees is nothing new for any true martial artist, that line always comes out naturally in our bil jee set, and in swordplay or in most kung fu systems anyway, and in boxing as well...

It really works well but it keeps me to far away from my opponent, .working more defensively rather then offensively like in the sport of boxing, therefore I would have to move to find an offensive line (run), because I’m using one side of my body, while the other arm or side of the body has to play catch up…

Just like in boxing you have to move to the left to find an opening for the backhand or power shot to land, but if your opponent move you may not get that shot in and will have to start all over again, therefore losing this concept "economy of motions", the more moves you make the more time you waste...

Nothing special about that line, I was doing that line since 1975… I was taught that way of fighting in the first year of my kung fu training and it was not through wing chun that I perfected it, it was in boxing that made me truly understand it... That may be the reason why so many TWC guys look like kick boxers when they spar… Hey, nothing wrong with that…

Ali.

[Ali Rahim]

What do others think of this concept the central line? Actually I could write an article on at least four or five styles that use this ideal, I do have a lot to say on this subject, any takers…

Ali.

[Ali Rahim]

I feel that one can actually throw more punches fighting with the centerline.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kROaMamjv1A

Now here's some good footwork you should check out... LOL… LOL… LOL…

Ali.

[Ali Rahim]

Here I’m showing how I feel fighting off the central-line is telegraphic, just my opinion nothing personal, you know how it is people always saying this or saying that in discredit but never explaining why…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrlcrF28XGo

How I deal with most side body technique is to attack the outside of their mon sao with one step bridge and attack, automatically putting you in the position that they fought so hard to be in…

Ali.

[Jonathan_AZ]

Hello Ali,

Thank you for sharing this last video.
I can admit, I do not know what TWC 'central line' theory really is, so I cannot comment on that. But, from a HFY perspective, I can understand the distortions you are talking about in your video.

What I would like to touch on is the 'side neutral' stance. In your video, I can see your point about the back hand having to play catchup. IMO, this is a distortion in the body that puts time on the opponent's side. I think the issue you are pointing out is that by the way you demo it, your arms have a long-short problem. Meaning, the rear hand does not have the same reach as the front hand. In this case, I can agree with you in your assesment - the rear shoulder is much further away and it takes much more time to 'twist' so the rear hand can catch up to the front.

Now, in HFY, we also use similar facings/alignments as you are demoing as 'central line'. But, when compared to your video, we do not approach this facing/body alignment with the long/short distortion in the arms - we set up our structures so we have equal reach with both hands, even in what could be called a 'side neutral' stance. So, with equal reach in all our weapons, there is no catch-up/time distortion as presented in the video. This also goes against our gate-theory concepts (among other things as well).

Again, I do not have any experience with TWC, nor thier central-line concept. Just looking at your video with a 'HFY eye' I can see why you would feel that there is a timing distortion in the set-up you gave.

Thanks again for sharing your videos, and it's always a pleasure reading/seeing your perspectives and training methods!

Regards,
Jonathan

[sihing]

Hi,

When I was actively teaching TWC as taught by Sifu Lewadny, we only used the side neutral stance while in the non contact stage of fighting, therefore you were outside of the kicking range of the opponent. In this range there is no real need for facing since the attacker would have to step first before any contact could be made (if you used facing concept in this range you would lose the asset of "reach" as well). Once contact was made (whether it was wrist to wrist, wrist to elbow, elbow to elbow, etc..) I would teach to square up the shoulders so that there was NO lag time between forward and rear hands. The problem with the TWC stance (as we taught it) as I see it now, after training in the WSL system for over a year, is that the hips were not square, but still facing a 45 deg angle (approx.) while in the contact stage and closer, this facing situation still allows you to be turned sideways quite easily since your power and center come from the waist/hip area. As a good friend once told me, this is long triangle structure, trying to be used in medium/short triangle range, it just doesn't fit, so therefore more blindside strategy (avoidance of direct force without the ability to deal with it in your structure/stance) is recommended in practice and application.

Of course this is IMO, and not an "official" statement from the WWCKFA under GM Cheung. They may have a different opinion as my Sifu did modify/adapt/change some things after his learning period and association with GM Cheung ended, based on his fighting/teaching experience.

James

[Ali Rahim]

This is one of ‘Cheung’ top student, never once did he square off to his opponent, but threw a lot of defensive movements…

http://www.advancedwingchun.com/dscnoo29.mov

Here’s one with ‘Cheung demonstrating… He squares off from a far but turns side body when contact is made…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb6xFe8k-uM

Originally posted by sihing

I see it now, after training in the WSL system for over a year, is that the hips were not square, but still facing a 45 deg angle (approx.) while in the contact stage and closer, this facing situation still allows you to be turned sideways quite easily since your power and center come from the waist/hip area.
The attacker can never regroup because of his stance…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb6xFe8k-uM

Here's my vid... I like your post...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrlcrF28XGo

Ali.

[Ali Rahim]

Originally posted by Jonathan_AZ
Hello Ali,

Thank you for sharing this last video.
I can admit, I do not know what TWC 'central line' theory really is, so I cannot comment on that. But, from a HFY perspective, I can understand the distortions you are talking about in your video.

What I would like to touch on is the 'side neutral' stance. In your video, I can see your point about the back hand having to play catchup. IMO, this is a distortion in the body that puts time on the opponent's side. I think the issue you are pointing out is that by the way you demo it, your arms have a long-short problem. Meaning, the rear hand does not have the same reach as the front hand. In this case, I can agree with you in your assesment - the rear shoulder is much further away and it takes much more time to 'twist' so the rear hand can catch up to the front.

Now, in HFY, we also use similar facings/alignments as you are demoing as 'central line'. But, when compared to your video, we do not approach this facing/body alignment with the long/short distortion in the arms - we set up our structures so we have equal reach with both hands, even in what could be called a 'side neutral' stance. So, with equal reach in all our weapons, there is no catch-up/time distortion as presented in the video. This also goes against our gate-theory concepts (among other things as well).

Again, I do not have any experience with TWC, nor thier central-line concept. Just looking at your video with a 'HFY eye' I can see why you would feel that there is a timing distortion in the set-up you gave.

Thanks again for sharing your videos, and it's always a pleasure reading/seeing your perspectives and training methods!

Regards,
Jonathan


Hey thanks man, I love you guys and thinking seriously of joining The HFY membership and becoming a new student, under Master Meng… I love learning new things, and I believe HFY is the original shaolin wing chun…

Ali Rahim.

[Op108wc]

"6 - 8 months to be able to defeat ANY STREET ATTACK.-- Ron Heumberger"

Ali,

Do you know Master Ron Heimberger?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu9dG2zJulg

[Ali Rahim]

Originally posted by Op108wc
"6 - 8 months to be able to defeat ANY STREET ATTACK.-- Ron Heumberger"

Ali,

Do you know Master Ron Heimberger?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu9dG2zJulg


What's up 'Big Dog', I knew you were coming sooner or later... No I don't know him but dig this sh*t here...

I use to read his articles in different kung fu magazines in the mid and late 80’s they were so informative… But when you put him next to his articles they just don’t match up, they are tons of guys that writes in magazines that only been training for a very little time (under six years or so) not saying that he's one…

In most cases their physical attributes has not caught up with their mental understanding, and most of the time their understanding is not strong enough which brings on embarrassment… This is a strong case of seminar babies not training hard at all, but is only down (known) through recognition…

You need to really work hard if your sifu is not standing next to you three or four times a week…

He is good for the most part, but I think he should be a lot better considering all of the years he’s been training… There are a lot of guys like that in the wing chun world that just do get it, for example; VP of the ‘Cheung’ group which I’m sure you seen his clips, same thing…

How long would it take? Just as I mention, that’s up to the individual who really works hard…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrlcrF28XGo

Ali.

[Op108wc]

What's up 'Big Dog', I knew you were coming sooner or later... No I don't know him but dig this sh*t here...

Hmmm...watch out, "Cute baby animals make you feel good." you've reached your higher vibration for the day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcrbHYfgvVc&NR=1

He is good for the most part, but I think he should be a lot better considering all of the years he’s been training…

In the world of hype, it's rare when someone who's actually skilled gets to show off. Imho, he's done a *X* job. Let his work speak for itself.

In most cases their physical attributes has not caught up with their mental understanding, and most of the time their understanding is not strong enough which brings on embarrassment… This is a strong cases of seminar babies not training hard at all, but is only down (known) through recognition…

Agreed. One doesn't grow if things come easily. Kungfu = TRAINING HARD


El

[Cang Long]

In most cases their physical attributes has not caught up with their mental understanding, The way I view this is that the mind is the scout that always leads the way to travel the path the body karma must follow. In other words this is constant in all practitioners and nothing to lose sleep over.
however
and most of the time their understanding is not strong enough which brings on embarrassment…
In my view this comes from both a lack of humility and committment to continual training. I say continual training because I believe even good teachers will be humble enough to know that they don't know it all and will be committed to learning more and training it into their body karma.

[Ali Rahim]

Both of you guys are right on point… Hey ‘El’ you really brought tears to my eyes with those baby chickens LOL, you are funny is hell…

When you don’t train to stay close (side body), then any fantasy technique you come up with will not work because you never learned bridge control, then all of your various technique become wild and unclear meaning; when bridge contact is made, your wing chun goes clean out the window, what a mess!!!

Check out the one that says, “Various Wing Chun Technique or Sparring”, or new… Did you see any? Like I said earlier kickboxing…

When you train to fight far from your opponent, you’ll never gain true wing chun momentum…

http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/tech.asp

Here is a list of their strategies; I didn’t see any below executed…
Except for one (the entry), after that I'm sure you'll get lost on the other techniques...

· Use entry technique
· Attack the opening
·
especially these:
Trap the leading elbow
· Attack the opponent's balance
· Pin the arms from the blind side
· Control the opponent's blind side
· Use the centre line to force the opponent to use the outside path
·
Keep moving. Don't present a steady target for your opponent
· Be calm, have confidence in yourself, let your reflexes guide you

Hey, sounds good on paper don't it? When skipping in from a distant (entry) your opponent will react, and he will move just as I said earlier, then none of the above will work, unless he just stands there, which they did not do in this clip (sparring) but only in demonstrations... I’m sure that’s why you didn’t see any of those strategies executed...

When they skip in like that don't go backwards (attack the attack) just run in punching and put him on his as*, he’s on one leg your on two It's a big motion and easy to see, must step in with punches before his foot hits the floor...

Ali.

[Cang Long]

The problem with the TWC stance (as we taught it) as I see it now, after training in the WSL system for over a year, is that the hips were not square, but still facing a 45 deg angle (approx.) while in the contact stage and closer, this facing situation still allows you to be turned sideways quite easily since your power and center come from the waist/hip area. As a good friend once told me, this is long triangle structure, trying to be used in medium/short triangle range, it just doesn't fit, so therefore more blindside strategy (avoidance of direct force without the ability to deal with it in your structure/stance) is recommended in practice and application.
Sihing,
Interesting, you now see a difference in practice have you learned a new difference in principle?

[sihing]

Originally posted by Cang Long
Sihing,
Interesting, you now see a difference in practice have you learned a new difference in principle?

Tony,

Yes, the principle of a unified body. When facing correctly you become more stable & stronger in your stance. This one idea alone increases your punching power and ability of withstand and absorb force, once in the proper range.

James

[Ali Rahim]

Originally posted by sihing
Tony,

Yes, the principle of a unified body. When facing correctly you become more stable & stronger in your stance. This one idea alone increases your punching power and ability of withstand and absorb force, once in the proper range.

James

H*ll yeah!!!

Ali.

[Ali Rahim]

Now this is a hot Monday afternoon:

If we do fight off the shoulder it’s with the Tren Mah, very subtle and with very close contact as the wooden-man and chum kil dictates…

Not the be all or say all applications, just helping my student explore the structures on these forms…

Josh is a freshman in collage and a good student…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKQ0HR2u7uI

Ali.

[Op108wc]

Check out the one that says, “Various Wing Chun Technique or Sparring”, or new… Did you see any? Like I said earlier kickboxing…

When you train to fight far from your opponent, you’ll never gain true wing chun momentum…

http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/tech.asp

Hey Ali, I have a question with this pictrue. (Sifu Redmond and Sifu Leung - Sticking Hands) Why didn't Sifu Leung take his watch off while doing chi sau?

http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/photos.asp


El

[Op108wc]

Some new pics here:

GM Cheung sparring with Wong Shun Leung

http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/leaf_6.asp#

[Cang Long]

New WingChunKwoon.com Clips

3 new clips are up:
http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/woodchi.asp#chi
http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/tech.asp
http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/clips_historical.asp

PR
__________________
Phillip Redmond
Sihing,
Care to share your thoughts on any of these videos since you have experience of from inside and outside both now. Ali if you care to make any comments they are always welcome as well.

[Cang Long]

This a view of the picture with the watch.

[Ali Rahim]

Originally posted by Op108wc
Hey Ali, I have a question with this pictrue. (Sifu Redmond and Sifu Leung - Sticking Hands) Why didn't Sifu Leung take his watch off while doing chi sau?

http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/photos.asp


El

You know and I know you can’t roll with a watch on, ‘Leung’ knew what he was doing and didn’t want to waste his time rolling with such an incompetent practitioner… I’ve seen this guy roll before; he’s in the same sh*tty boat with VP, that’s why you’ll never see him play chi sao on vid’s only the seniors and jr. students of ‘Cheung’ post vid’s of themselves but not this guy… let me put it this way, he did once and will never do it again and VP is the same way LOL…LOL…

Ali.

[Ali Rahim]

Originally posted by Cang Long
Sihing,
Care to share your thoughts on any of these videos since you have experience of from inside and outside both now. Ali if you care to make any comments they are always welcome as well.

Looks like a cheap porn flick with stretch marks and all, or a very bad B movie like “The Goat That Ate San Francisco”…

Ali.

[Ali Rahim]

Originally posted by Op108wc
Some new pics here:

GM Cheung sparring with Wong Shun Leung

http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/leaf_6.asp#

I have taught or should I say teach at least 2-dozen of ‘Redmonds’ ex students and I have heard from at least 10 of them that the photo’s of ‘Cheung’/WSL was to show or demonstrate ‘Cheung’ skills being greater then WSL… Redmond voiced this all over Detroit… That use to be one of his many ploys in getting students by showing those photographs, outside of downing me...

Over half of those guys that Redmond has in his photo leaf are with me now…

WSL was light-years a head of ‘Cheung’, I believe that those photos are just a friendly demonstration of chi sao and nothing more… I have vids of some of my students doing the same as ‘Cheung’... I never turn any of my students into punching bags until they have at least one year of training, then I’ll scratch them clean out the fame…


Ali.

[Cang Long]

Ok check this out. Watching Ron Heimberger's video shows he can at least deal with on coming attacks for a respectable amount of time what we know about hendrik is that when he crossed hands with the weng chun master hendrik was on his *** in 3 moves maybe it had something to do with his stance or closing his eyes wating on the stillness or perhaps a song to come to mind :D

[Ali Rahim]

hunt1 said: Kung Fu Magazine Forum

Phil is the clip of chi sao between Keith Mazza and the gentleman from Foshan a fair example of what your organization considers good or acceptable chi sao?

Is this the type of chi sao one could expect if they visited one of your schools?




H*ll no, you will not see that type of chi sao taught there because that is not the ‘Cheung’ why of playing chi sao… This is what I saying there is no consistency in what they teach and display when pressure is applied…

Their rolling structure is usually higher then their head, separating the lower and upper extremitys, and the only way to deal with that guy was to lower his structure, not the 'William Cheung' way...

Ali.

[Cang Long]

Ali,
Hunt1's question was a fair one to anybody who watched the video.
This is what I saying there is no consistency in what they teach and display when pressure is applied… Ali, yours is a fair review as well from what I've seen of the different TWC videos out on the web. In this particular case the gentleman from Fotshan dispalyed very good character as opposed to Mazza who seemed surprised that other people outside of TWC would know how to chi sau.

[Ali Rahim]

Another example…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi-e3a2tw90

No consistency in what they teach and display when pressure is applied…

Ali.

[Ali Rahim]

Originally posted by Cang Long
what we know about hendrik is that when he crossed hands with the weng chun master hendrik was on his *** in 3 moves maybe it had something to do with his stance or closing his eyes wating on the stillness or perhaps a song to come to mind :D


What stance?

Ali.

[Ali Rahim]

I think that the guy from foshan was way better, he displayed skill rather then taking it as a fight, not one time did he lose control and break the bridge by swinging wildly…

They just don’t get it, and he's the best that they have to offer?

Ali.

[Op108wc]

Originally posted by Cang Long
Ok check this out. Watching Ron Heimberger's video shows he can at least deal with on coming attacks for a respectable amount of time what we know about hendrik is that when he crossed hands with the weng chun master hendrik was on his *** in 3 moves maybe it had something to do with his stance or closing his eyes wating on the stillness or perhaps a song to come to mind :D

*hendrik was on his A$$ in 3 moves*

LOL! Hendrik that gets what he wants never loses his reputation.

[Op108wc]

Originally posted by Ali Rahim
I have taught or should I say teach at least 2-dozen of ‘Redmonds’ ex students and I have heard from at least 10 of them that the photo’s of ‘Cheung’/WSL was to show or demonstrate ‘Cheung’ skills being greater then WSL… Redmond voiced this all over Detroit… That use to be one of his many ploys in getting students by showing those photographs, outside of downing me...

Over half of those guys that Redmond has in his photo leaf are with me now…

WSL was light-years a head of ‘Cheung’, I believe that those photos are just a friendly demonstration of chi sao and nothing more… I have vids of some of my students doing the same as ‘Cheung’... I never turn any of my students into punching bags until they have at least one year of training, then I’ll scratch them clean out the fame…


Ali.

Ali, a mind beyond judgments, watches and understands.


El

The purpose of this group is to discuss Wing Chun combat effectiveness with regards to full contact competitive fighting and combat in the streets. Anyone is welcome regardless of their Wing Chun lineage YOU MUST INCLUDE YOUR FULL, REAL NAME and COMPLETE WING CHUN LINEAGE in your sign up.
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/wckcg/

[Op108wc]

Challenge of the Masters

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=716921719259098796&q=challenge+of+the+masters&total=1006&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

[Ali Rahim]

Phil is the clip of chi sao between Keith Mazza and the gentleman from Foshan a fair example of what your organization considers good or acceptable chi sao?

Is this the type of chi sao one could expect if they visited one of your schools?




I'm not sure where you're going with your question but no two people are alike in any martial art. But you can see TWC chi sao or chi sao from other lineages here:http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/wckcg/
All members have to post a clip of themselves doing Wing Chun to be a member. There are no egos or lineage bashing. Also, no "nameless" people are allowed. The idea is for people to better their WC. I believe that if we all put our heads together we can get rid of the negative image WC has worldwide. If WC people can use their art in MMA events I would also be happy. A win by any WC person regardless of lineage would be a win for Wing Chun, IMO
PR
__________________
Phillip Redmond
World Wing Chun Kung Fu Association
TWC North America Headquarters
Wing Chun Kung Fu Academy of Michigan
Toronto Wing Chun Academy




Do you really think he don’t understand what he’s being asked (a real simple question)?

He’ll play dumb every time when the truth is shown … I can’t find any videos or clips as he said would appear on that site, if he would put them on that site in a place that is so hard to find, then he shouldn’t have any problem posting one here or anywhere else with action or true wing chun understanding… H*ll I’ll put up my AMG Mercedes C36 if it’s a real good one of himself…

Ali.

[Ali Rahim]

from the KFM Forum:

The idea is for people to better their WC. I believe that if we all put our heads together we can get rid of the negative image WC has worldwide.

PR
__________________
Phillip Redmond
World Wing Chun Kung Fu Association
TWC North America Headquarters
Wing Chun Kung Fu Academy of Michigan
Toronto Wing Chun Academy



See this is what I’m saying, this guys is good (what a joke)…Then explain why the photos Redmond of ‘Cheung’/WSL (bashing), remember that all of your Detroit ex-students and so-called students are watching…

[Ali Rahim]

LOL @ the theoretical chi sao fighters criticizing that clip. That clip was a good demonstration of what happens when chi sao gets closer to fighting or sparring. I say props to both of those guys for showing what happens when both guys really start to resist and counter.

Want to make your WC more effective? Start to take it in the direction you saw in that clip instead of the standard steering wheel mutual masturbation drill that most of the theoretical chi sao fighters do.

Last edited by Knifefighter : Today at 07:53 PM.


You got too be joking me… you resist the counter with textbook structure and sensitivity within the system you were taught in, not through force or deviation of structure that is your goal...

And to be marked as a master you should already be there not trying to find your way, or all those years of training will go right out of the window, and you will start creating a lot of bad habits taking you farther and farther away from the true essence of your training…

Any wing chun person with more then 10 years under their belt will find that statement very odd...


Want to make your WC more effective? Start to take it in the direction you saw in that clip instead of the standard steering wheel mutual masturbation drill that most of the theoretical chi sao fighters do.

If you do that it will not be chi sao, it will be just a street brawl, it's about bringing to life the things you have been taught, not what one perceive things to be in the heat of the moment through deviation...


Ali.

[Cang Long]

Any wing chun person with more then 10 years under their belt will find that statement very odd...


Want to make your WC more effective? Start to take it in the direction you saw in that clip instead of the standard steering wheel mutual masturbation drill that most of the theoretical chi sao fighters do.

If you do that it will not be chi sao, it will be just a street brawl, it's about bringing to life the things you have been taught, not what one perceive things to be in the heat of the moment through deviation...
Ali,
Excellent point, actually from what I have learned I do agree with your assessment. The video seemed to demonstrate one person that knew how to chi sau and one person getting upset.You got too be joking me… you resist the counter with textbook structure and sensitivity within the system you were taught in, not through force or deviation of structure that is your goal...
Again Ali your commments are making sense that should be more common than not but once again approval of the actions in the video seem to prove that not enough people are reading the book of wing chun correctly. A real shame since it's such a good read.

[Cang Long]

Challenge of the Masters

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...h&plindex=0

Thanks for the link had never heard of that one not that this is saying much but it was a very interesting movie. In the end I got the sense that this movie was relaying the importance of Hou Chyun San Sau among other things. Really good movie though.

[Op108wc]

Canglong, this world is in darkness. How few have eyes to see!

Youtube.com link to clips on Hendrik discussing Yik Kam SLT

Part 1a:
http://www.youtube.com/v/zKWVOc2HOig

Part 1b:
http://www.youtube.com/v/p3ntCGIoMvM

Part 1c:
http://www.peewee.com/

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/v/uKASkDfmV9g

[Ali Rahim]

Originally Posted by rindge
Phil, congrats. Phil, you are the king of video - do your guys have some clips? It would be great to see.


Rindge





Thanks Rindge,
Phil
__________________
Phillip Redmond
World Wing Chun Kung Fu Association
TWC North America Headquarters
Wing Chun Kung Fu Academy of Michigan
Toronto Wing Chun Academy


He’s at it again…

How can a student accomplish something that their grandmaster/master has fail to teach them, or display on vid’s correctly as taught by their leader, How can this be?

“Redmond” says thanks but never replied on the footage… Trust me you’ll never see those clips… If you can’t see through this crap, you got to be blind…

Ali.

[Cang Long]

Canglong, this world is in darkness. How few have eyes to see!

Youtube.com link to clips on Hendrik discussing Yik Kam SLT
At the 4:29 mark of 1a hendrik says he is unaware where this ging originates from but feels it is some sort of "fusion" presumably from existing arts. At the 2:12 mark of 1a he says "we do IT differently" his understanding isn't thorough enough to know that "it" might be something totaly different than what he describes as something done differently than others. hendrik doesn't seem to fully understand the nature of things change with a simple change in the positioning of the hand so saying "it" is the same even though it looks differently and performs differently obviously has him confused even in his own video.

In a world full of darkness hendrik most certainly is not the light.

[Ali Rahim]

Originally posted by Cang Long
At the 4:29 mark of 1a hendrik says he is unaware where this ging originates from but feels it is some sort of "fusion" presumably from existing arts. At the 2:12 mark of 1a he says "we do IT differently" his understanding isn't thorough enough to know that "it" might be something totaly different than what he describes as something done differently than others. hendrik doesn't seem to fully understand the nature of things change with a simple change in the positioning of the hand so saying "it" is the same even though it looks differently and performs differently obviously has him confused even in his own video.

In a world full of darkness hendrik most certainly is not the light.


Maybe he needs some special help (Bob Newhart), or he’s not finish learning what he’s trying too teach on tape, he makes everyone around him confused, just look at the guys face that is sitting next to him…

Ali.

[Cang Long]

Maybe he needs some special help (Bob Newhart), or he’s not finish learning what he’s trying too teach on tape, he makes everyone around him confused, just look at the guys face that is sitting next to him…
lol for real Ali you got that right that dude Russell has that look of what am I doing here on his face. The fact that hendrik sat down at his dinner table to explain WC techniques must have Terence just livid and ready to blow a gasquet. It might not be much of a wc video per say but hey at least hendrik is one up on Terence as far as posting a video on the internet goes imagine that.

[Ali Rahim]

I noticed that he uses the computer as a teleprompter, that means that he haven’t figured it out yet… If he was real with it, then it would flow right off the top of his head…

Not saying that I’m the man or something like that, but I never rehearse when making clips (I’m no slave to a book), you press record and with me it just flows right out…

I’ve been down for almost 30 years now and it is apart of me physically and mentally... Never would I second-guess the mechanics of an art that I've trained in for over 20 years...


Ali.

[Op108wc]

Originally posted by Ali Rahim
I noticed that he uses the computer as a teleprompter, that means that he haven’t figured it out yet… If he was real with it, then it would flow right off the top of his head…

Hendrik talks alot, but shows no action.

ok... what I'd like to see....

Hendrik's take on defending against a straight punch, cross, hook, kicks and so on.

Casting Kung Fu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa-PhBRiuMU&mode=related&search=


Originally posted by Hendrik
Thanks for your request. However,
hahaha, I am too old to do that. others in this forum certainly could do much much better then me.

See, these day my WC is love and spring time, and love and spring time doesnt defend against others, but inspire others to be more love and spring time.

BTW, this topic is about Yik Kam's SLT discussion so let's leave it that way instead of going other ways.
huh? ..."going other ways"
http://www.peewee.com/

hahaha, thanks for the BIG LAUGH! Pee Wee, Hendrik!

[Ali Rahim]

Originally posted by Hendrik
Thanks for your request. However,
hahaha, I am too old to do that. others in this forum certainly could do much much better then me.

See, these day my WC is love and spring time, and love and spring time doesnt defend against others, but inspire others to be more love and spring time.

BTW, this topic is about Yik Kam's SLT discussion so let's leave it that way instead of going other ways.

Originally posted by Hendrik
Thanks for your request. However,
hahaha, I am too old to do that. others in this forum certainly could do much much better then me.

See, these day my WC is love and spring time, and love and spring time doesnt defend against others, but inspire others to be more love and spring time.

BTW, this topic is about Yik Kam's SLT discussion so let's leave it that way instead of going other ways.






Don’t believe that love crap that’s just a cop-out (Unless they come out the gate that way or is taught to be that way and show it right from the start of meeting anyone) … See I’m the type of guy that handles my own business, don’t need help, don’t want help… In fact I’ll encourage one to lose his mind from time to time, so I can get the workout…

I can’t stand those who talk sh*t then play b*tch, I don’t hate them but you can’t take the word of a tuff coward on anything because they have so much to prove and will never back it up…. Not only “Hendrik” but “Redmond” also…

Nether of them showed me love, even after I showed them the up most respect first.

I’m usually the one that gets it first, (disrespected) pretty much all the time because of this: name, religion, and most of all color… I know this to be true, because no matter how much they say they hate me, my skills are never attacked…

And on other forums the category that I mention above was always brought out many, many times…


Ali.

[Ali Rahim]

When I watch his clips and read his post I see that his whole approach is no more then contradictory…

He talks about the ideal of stillness in which I truly understand, and the ideal of moving chi in which I also understand, and then “jing” or in some words dealing with applications "jing lik sao" (a very strong manifestation of application)…

Now here is the problem that I see; he’s always mentioning the mechanics of his structure, which is ok, cause you could easily move your chi or develop it that way through proper mechanics… He’s always talking about power or force, generating power thought “jing” which is odd considering he is so passives…

“jing” it self has nothing to do with developing “chi” or moving “chi” because it is not stillness, “chi” comes from breathing and good mind control over your organs (moving your internal organs), not through an aggressive usages of body mass, but through softens and stillness…

“jing” replace the muscles in the terms of “jing lik sao” tendon usage, which is a 100% physical ideal and does not supplement the ideal of chi, but very strongly suggest the ideal of application or fighting, but yet he does not teach fighting because he is so passives and full of love…

“Jing” is very aggressive and explosive when done correctly… “Jing” excite the mind in moving or pushing natural energy through the limbs (very quickly)…


Ali.

[duende]

Originally posted by Ali Rahim
When I watch his clips and read his post I see that his whole approach is no more then contradictory… He talks about the ideal of stillness in which I truly understand, and the ideal of moving chi in which I also understand, and then “jing” or in some words dealing with applications "jing lik sao" (a very strong manifestation of application)…

Now here is the problem that I see; he’s always mentioning the mechanics of his structure, which is ok, cause you could easily move your chi or develop it that way through proper mechanics… He’s always talking about power or force, generating power thought “jing” which is odd considering he is so passives…

“jing” it self has nothing to do with developing “chi” or moving “chi” because it is not stillness, “chi” comes from breathing and good mind control over your organs (moving your internal organs), not through an aggressive usages of body mass, but through softens and stillness…

“jing” replace the muscles in the terms of “jing lik sao” tendon usage, which is a 100% physical ideal and does not supplement the ideal of chi, but very strongly suggest the ideal of application or fighting, but yet he does not teach fighting because he is so passives and full of love…

“Jing” is very aggressive and explosive when done correctly… “Jing” excite the mind in moving or pushing natural energy through the limbs (very quickly)…


Ali.

This man knows what he's talking about. :)

Finally something to read of value and not just a load of crap.

What you refer to as "jing lik sao", sounds very similar to what we refer to as Dip Gwat Gong.

best

Alex

[Ali Rahim]

Originally posted by duende
This man knows what he's talking about. :)

Finally something to read of value and not just a load of crap.

What you refer to as "jing lik sao", sounds very similar to what we refer to as Dip Gwat Gong.

best

Alex


Hey thanks a lot Alex...

The main function of “Jing” is to prepare one for "combat" replacing muscles mass so the limbs can moves freely and without static force, and uncertainty of application or ideal dealing with pressure (fighting), or total relaxation while fighting per-say...

Here is a good example of "jing" in play...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CucBbet1SUY


Ali.

[Ali Rahim]

Here’s is the best way for wing chun practitioners to develop “jing” (and understand it from an application standpoint) it’s just that simple… I did it with “don chi sao” single stick; I just made sure I always had a good cling and worked the vertices of the small triangle…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo3xFck-krM


Ali.

[Ali Rahim]

internal wing chun

Katsu Jin Ken
Findin Wuji Thru Christ

are there internal puches in wing chun if so what are they were are they in the forms & how is internal punch different from external?
__________________
"No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD."-Isaiah 54:17

"when in doubt, seek center"-sifu Brian


This is why I was banned from the KFM Forum; they said that religion has no part on the forum, but look at this guys signature. My signature had a quote from the Quran and right away Victor Parlati labels me as a terrorist and Shing73 bans me right afterwards…

Martial Talk forums www.martialtalk.com did the same, but one of the their moderators post my IP address with a Arabic character being shot in the head saying that I must die… And it’s a lot more where that came from…

Just too show you that most forums are political and de-void of knowledge and skill, in some words these forums could be a waist of time…

[Ali Rahim]

Just like water and ice they may be two different formats of ideals but of the same manifestation (H2O)… There are a lot of categories dealing with “jing” that one can mention and are all different ideals when brought forth mentally but the results are the same when executed (“jing lik sao”)…

“Jing” is a strong concept and ideal of the twelve-muscle/tendon channels…
Physiologically, they do not enter into the internal organs but coordinate the movement of the bone and limbs… The Twelve-Muscle/Tendon Channels are connected to the inner fascia of the body’s muscles, tendons, and ligaments as well as others connective tissues…

They are all affiliated with the channels and collaterals (Luo) systems on the exterior of the body, and serve as a mediator between any energetic reactions (trauma stress, etc) that vibrate from the body’s exterior surface to the deep internal organs…


Ali.

[Cang Long]

This is why I was banned from the KFM Forum;
Ali,
It's a shame that we live in a world with so few people able to think for themselves but as a current member of KFO let me be the first to let you know you haven't missed much same old arguments different thread.

[Ali Rahim]

Don Chi with footwork

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jLMyITgjbk

Ali.

[Ali Rahim]

'Tony' you are a good person...

Ali.

[Ali Rahim]

‘Interlick’ wrote this on KFMF:

That's a bit unfair. There was one post he made on the WCML back in 1999 ...

Dave has banned people, but not for a while. Samson (in various incarnations) and Ali Rahim come to mind. Both of them repeatedly made grossly insulting posts about other forum members (Phil Redmond, in those cases).




If that’s the case prove it… I never insulted anyone on that forum, just go through all the archive and try too proving it. It’s no way that you can; me getting banned was part of victor's doing, how soon we forget…

I challenge anyone too go and prove it for themselves…
And I’m 100% sure that you can’t do it… If anyone believes that, they are living a lie, so just go look for yourself… That is not the case just ask Dave himself,,, he don’t seem like the one too lie, it was a miss understanding between Dave and myself…

Ali.

[Phil Redmond]

Hi Savi,

Probably Phil would be the guy to ask these questions too. For me and the association I belong to, we do not have one foot pointed straight and one on a angle while in side neutral stances. Basically while in any stance we try to have both feet pointed in the same direction at all times, this allows perfect body unity to happen (therefore no twisting in the connecting joints). For example, what we call Left Side Neutral, the left lead would be out, with the feet, knees, hips, and trunk all pointed 45 deg to the right. Of course while fighting this may not happen perfectly, but that is the ideal. T-Stance is not considered a stance IMO, but more of a step, as we use the term T-Step to describe it. One would not want to stand in a position like this with the feet so close together for long as it is very unstable and promotes no mobility.

AS for the forms, the only form where the feet are parallel and do not move is in the basic Shil Lum Tao form. In the advanced version there is more footwork.

James
Actually the stance where one foot pointed straight to the opponents center and one on a angle while in side neutral stances is taught by Cheung Sifu.

[Savi]

Actually the stance where one foot pointed straight to the opponents center and one on a angle while in side neutral stances is taught by Cheung Sifu.Hello Redmond Sifu,

Thank you for your response. I would like to know of any possible reasons for the variation on why there are two "versions" of TWC's Side Neutral Stance (feet parallel and feet not parallel). Any explanation you may offer on the differences is highly welcome!

Regards,
Savi.

[Phil Redmond]

Here I’m showing how I feel fighting off the central-line is telegraphic, just my opinion nothing personal, you know how it is people always saying this or saying that in discredit but never explaining why…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrlcrF28XGo

How I deal with most side body technique is to attack the outside of their mon sao with one step bridge and attack, automatically putting you in the position that they fought so hard to be in…

Ali.
I saw the video and it's not how it's done in TWC. Both hands can strike the same point in space if you understood TWC. There are all sorts of theories and opinions among he different WC lineages. I don't compare or knock what others do. If it works fro them them it's all good. The bottom line is does what you do work against resisting opponents outside of your style. I test it. It works. I keep it.

[Cang Long]

Both hands can strike the same point in space if you understood TWC.Hello Redmond Sifu,
Simultaneous offense and defense can be defined as a point in space and time. Is that point in space and time defined in your SNT or in general anywhere in your system that others might see it and understand exactly how/where that point in space and time is located?
Thank you for you answers