Yip Man Foshan and Hong Kong

[mario bava]

Hello There

Here is a very interesting site which has an article about GM Yip Man's teaching in Foshan and Hong Kong.

www.itswa.co.uk/foshan.htm

Cheerio, Gary

www.hungfayiireland.com

[Armin]

Hi Gary!

Thanks for the link. It's indeed interesting, but there are some, well, mistakes.

Especially:
Yip Man also didn't teach the single sticking hand or any other method apart from two-handed chi sao
That's not true! Dan Chi was and is a very important exercise in Yip Man Ving Tsun.

And there are several questions left open (or better: there are parts that seem to be more like advertisement than facts). E. g.:
The first form is around the same length as the Hong Kong version but some of the angles are very different, all the other forms are longer with a greater variety of techniques.
What does that mean. Does 'greater variety of techniques' make it better? (Of course, that's the intention of this sentence ;) )

And what's the meaning of this?
He does however know that Yip Man only taught the Bagua steps in Foshan.
In Foshan, they use circular steps??? Maybe Sifu Meng could say something about that?!

Well, sorry, too much advertisement, too small information.


Armin.

[mario bava]

Hello Armin

How's the form? I thought it was interesting to read about how GM Yip Man apparently taught differently between the two locations. I see you say there was a mistake in the article and said "That's not true! Dan Chi was and is a very important exercise in Yip Man Ving Tsun." - I think the article was saying there was no Dan Chi in the version he was taught specifically. The piece on the Bagua steps is very interesting, and hopefully Master Meng may be able to shed light on that. Overall Armin, having seen how many variations the Hong Kong Yip Man students have in their Wing Chun and how many differing families there are other than Yip Man, I wouldn't just dismiss that as advertising so quickly.
Here's a list of the authors qualifications - he actually seems to be the Hon. Director of the Yip Man Museum in Foshan, so he may speak with some authority. What do you think?

http://www.itswa.co.uk/frontpage.htm

Cheerio, Gary

www.hungfayiireland.com

[Armin]

Hi Gary,

I'm fine, thanks. And you?

You might be right. You might be wrong. That doesn't really matter to me (concerning this text), except of one question: Why should Yip Man change his way of teaching?

Of course, he met another sifu, teaching him the theory of Ving Tsun more deeply than his former was able to (according to what Yip Man told himself). But still, why did he change his way of teaching (and even what he taught is said to be different)?

Is it, because he didn't learn everything before he came to Hongkong? That would mean, that his first teacher was a bad teacher - not knowing everything or keeping things secret. I don't think Chan Wah Shun was that kind of person or didn't know every bit of Ving Tsun.

Well, Wong Shun Leung, Ip Chun and all the other students of Yip Man tell, that Yip Man had a very special way of teaching. He would find out, what exercises would be best for you and he'd teach only these.

And that's why there are so many different 'Yip Man Ving Tsun System-styles'! If you were a small person, he'd teach you a system, that worked in close-range with a lot of fast footwork (you have to get close against bigger enemies and be fast with it). If you were huge and heavy, he'd showed you a system, that would use 'wall-breaking-through-from-the-distance'-methods instead of going around (because you should use your weight and longer arms and legs).

So, Ving Tsun has to be different - if you aren't strong, you have to be soft and 'go around' power. If you have power, apply the power straight and hard.

But why could he teach so differently? Because the concepts didn't change. Technique is just an expression of concepts and there's enough room left for interpretations.

Here's a list of the authors qualifications - he actually seems to be the Hon. Director of the Yip Man Museum in Foshan, so he may speak with some authority. What do you think?
There's only one real Ving Tsun Museum - and it's not the one in Foshan!!! ;) :D :D :D


Armin.

[mario bava]

Hello There

"There's only one real Ving Tsun Museum - and it's not the one in Foshan!!!" :p hmmmm, I wonder what you mean ;)

I have spoken to some of my old Sihings who have been to China and seen these Foshan systems, and they honestly couldn't believe that some of what they were seeing came from Yip Man.
On the subject of Yip Man Hong Kong students, here's another link:

http://youtube.com/results?search=chu+shong+tin&search_type=search_videos

Purely for chat, why is it that apparently only Chu Shong Tin can generate this type of power in the Yip Man family - was he taught this, did he find it out himself, or did he add something from the outside? There may be others who can do this, I'm just not aware. What do you think?

Cheerio, Gary

www.hungfayiireland.com

[Armin]

Hi Gary!

Seeing the videos, well, it comes to my mind that on some Leung Ting videos, they show the same - sometimes even more powerful. And he's a student of Leung Sheung. A different lineage.

Even if I kick my students with all possible forward-momentum, they'll go fly away.

To see more, take a look at some of Gary Lam's videos. He shows 'the secret' behind that. ;)

Gary Lam movies (http://www.garylamwingchun.com/movies.html)

So, it's part of the system. You came from Yip Man system, right? Have you never been taught that ways of generating power?

I have spoken to some of my old Sihings who have been to China and seen these Foshan systems, and they honestly couldn't believe that some of what they were seeing came from Yip Man.
Hm, how many steps of evolution have been between the Foshan-systems and the Yip Man system? When he learned the system (for the first time), he was quite young. Than he learned it again in Hongkong. Where is the source of so strong changes???

Well, I know, many changes have come to the system out of experiences Yip Man's students had in fights. E. g. the change of the 6th set in Yiu Nim Tao - there never was a gaun sao. After Wong Shun Leung found it pretty useful in one of his fights, he convinced Yip Man to change the form.

But still, that's only technical, not conceptional.

The older sihings you mentionend, did they learn from Chan Wah Shun? How many generations lie between them and the source Yip Man had?

On the other hand, is Yip Man Ving Tsun better or worse than Foshan Wing Chun? Or is it possible to say, that Yip Man Ving Tsun and Foshan Wing Chun are (now) different systems - like e. g. Hung Fa Yi and Yip Man? They have the same sources, use mostly the same names, but there are so many diferences, that one just can't say it's the same system any more.

Maybe, the differences come from different experiences. Foshan Wing Chun having to hide, stop fighting openly. Yip Man Ving Tsun going into public, winning fight after fight in beimos.


Armin.

[Firehawk3]

In Leung Tings Roots and Branches of Wing Tsun book there is one of Yip Mans early students Lun Gai performing some of his sets pictures of him in the book . Yip Man Foshan Wing Chun does look a little different than Hong Kong Yip Man Wing Chun .

[mario bava]

Hello Armin

Thanks for the links. In my past, we did train ways of developing power, but the power I refer to is that shown by GM Chu Shong Tin - at over 70 years of age being able to stand on a small piece of wood with one leg and hold off a grown man pushing with both legs and hands is something that I still have not seen any of the other Yip Man students do. They all have power, no doubt about that, but I have not seen many with that level of power. Interesting point about the private/public possibility - if that is close to the mark Armin, why do you think that Yip Man seems to have taught differently between the two groups if at all?
Hello there Firehawk3 - how are you? Thanks for the info. Just wondering if you know any more about potential difference or lack of between Foshan and Hong Kong teaching - the Bagua Steps mentioned, are they pictured in the book?

Cheerio, Gary

www.hungfayiireland.com

[Cang Long]

Hello all,
I actually had written Frearson Sifu before this thread was started and am still awaiting his reply hopefully we can get some of his direct input sooner or later.

[mario bava]

Hello Sir

Ha ha - what a coincidence: great minds think alike ;) Hopefully if it's o.k. we'll get to hear about a reply sooner or later. Thanks for telling us that Cang Long.

Cheerio, Gary

www.hungfayiireland.com