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Cynikal Mantis
05-08-2006, 06:45 AM
If I could ask a min of your time and just spare a thought on this question.

Imagine the is a kwoon it does not matter what style the kwoon teaches but it is an internal style. We have 2 new studebts enter on the same day same time.
1st student:
Name: Jon
Age: 25
Sex: Male
Intersts: Music, Philosiphy, Education, Kung fu

2nd student
Name: Dan
Age:25
Sex:Male
Intrests: Music, Sports, Body Building

Jon has been intrested in martial arts for many years and previously practiced many different styles, after feeling something was missing he reasearches into serious Martial arts, has a understanding of chi,knows what the dantian is, different methods of attaining chi and chi cultivation.

Dan also has been intersted in martial arts for many years and has too practiced many styles, same story feels some thing is missing but unlike Jon he does no reasearch but picks the nearest kwoon. Dan is your basic Westerner, consumed by material possions and how he looks, has no understanding of chi and probally disbelive it.

Ok so now we know our gusy backgrounds its time to train. Both turn up on the same day, they both train 2 times a week and both like this form of internal kung fu.

My question is after say 3 years it is inevitable they will be so so at this style, confidant in moves, applications and forms. Now there will be chi (power) within these individuals, take into account none of there beliefs have changed Jon knows about Chi Dan may know now but is still sceptical. Who will have acheived more from the style.... Jon the beliver, of Dan the subcouncious chi cultavator?

It may seem obvious to some but i have pondered on this for some time, can you push for something too much,being maybe artificial actually trying to feel for it. Or can it just come subcounciouslly, purer and slowley building on its own?

Cang Long
05-08-2006, 12:33 PM
My question is after say 3 years it is inevitable they will be so so at this style, confidant in moves, applications and forms. Now there will be chi (power) within these individuals, take into account none of there beliefs have changed Jon knows about Chi Dan may know now but is still sceptical. Who will have acheived more from the style.... Jon the beliver, of Dan the subcouncious chi cultavator?

It may seem obvious to some but i have pondered on this for some time, can you push for something too much,being maybe artificial actually trying to feel for it. Or can it just come subcounciouslly, purer and slowley building on its own?
Cynikal Mantis,
Well I can certainly see why some might call you cynikal, interesting scenario indeed. Though some of the naswers you get here might be a little different than you might think at first.

In our teaching we are tought that to realize the full potential of the body you must cultivate the mind body and spirit as one. Meaning the elimination of thoughts that would consider such things as internal and external. There is but one mind one body and one spirit working in unison to achieve a desired result.

So for your scenario it would appear that if their is an inherent cultivation of the chi in the daily drills or routines then the 2 practitioners would be at the same level of skill and if there is no additional training to achieve chi cultivation in the art itself then it is most likely not being incorporated and their skill level is still equal.

Cynikal Mantis
05-09-2006, 02:57 AM
Cang

Are you familular with Shen Kung

Baojong
05-12-2006, 01:10 PM
Depends what you mean by achievement and how you measure it. Are you talking martial achievement or are talking about something else.

In any case Dan's belief would have to change to progress because yi (intention) plays a big role in virtually all chinese internal arts. In order to move on to more advanced principles than just copying movements he would need to start to understand the six harmonies, the dan tien and principles of internal linking.

Baojong
05-12-2006, 01:32 PM
Yes I still do. Is that an issue? Nice to see you're keeping the southern mantis flag flying. I respectfully note on your lineage you've only put down Ip Shui on your line, are you 5th generation?

Baojong
05-12-2006, 01:45 PM
I have sent you a PM

Cynikal Mantis
05-12-2006, 02:10 PM
I just sent u a PM

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