leung ting story u better read

[lai_si]

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[Armin]

Yaaaawwnnnnn, that story is old. Something interesting today? Oh, look - in China, they dropped a bag of rice!

I'm not sure, in the bible, wasn't there somebody saying something about being free of sin and stones and throwing and stuff like that?


Armin.

[sauchi]

Its kinda funny now reading the articles to me.

I can still remember when I first saw another article where Leung Ting took a photo Ip Man and some body else, and cut out the head of the other guy and placed Leung Ting's own head in place of the other guy. Then he made claims of being a disciple.

The HK newspapers printed the before and after.

Thanks for sharing

:)

[SenseofTouch]

I do not believe such pictures. Pictures can be super easily manipulated and how do you know if it's not the other way around?

[Armin]

Actually, there are fotos of Yip Man and Leung Ting. Why Leung Ting had the idea that he had to use such methods, who knows? And: Who cares??? Wong Shun Leung designed the school sign of Leung Ting's school. On the other hand they were quarreling at Yip Man's burrial.

Common guys, that stuff is older than most of the writing people here. Forget about that.


Armin.

[SenseofTouch]

True. Right now, I should actually care more about how I'm doing myself rather than to mind business that does me no good.

[YuenYun]

Haha, yes indeed these are very old. And I believe that the disputes will never be settled. Perhaps it's best to put it to rest. What happens is between them. Looking to the past sometimes just raises frustration and anger among people. Let's put it to rest
:)

[Cang Long]

Armin,
Unfortuantely old news to some is new to others so if answering these same questions a multitude of times helps others grow and learn faster than we did ourselves then its does serve a purpose.

[Armin]

Hi Cang Long!

True. But this kind of news is clearly to give Leung Ting a bad rep. What about all the things he achieved? He did a great job in making Wing Chun well-known worldwide.

Ok, I'll give you all some facts:

#1: Leung Ting never was a student of Yip Man. BUT: Leung Ting managed to meet Yip Man very often 1 or 2 years before Yip Man died. And they talked very often and in depth about Ving Tsun.

#2: Leung Ting was a student of Leung Sheung and he already learned the weaponless part of Ving Tsun before he met Yip Man.

#3: There is that one foto that Leung Ting 'worked on' - there are several others showing Leung Ting and Yip Man that are true.

#4: Leung Ting wasn't the first to teach Ving Tsun in Europe, but his student Keith R. Kernspecht was the one to build the biggest Organisation with the most students.

#5: Leung Ting told that he inhabited the 10th Dan in Ving Tsun and that he was the one to be the inheritor of the system. That was settled after he had a long talk with Wong Shun Leung and others.

BTW: Don't laugh about the the 10th Dan - kung fu wasn't well-known, but the japanese systems were. If you were asked what you were training and told that it was kung fu, most people would say 'Ah, some kind of karate. Do you have a black belt?'. So, some kung fu-masters thought about having a graduation-system like the japanese systems had.

Talking about history - the William Cheung and Emin Boztepe incident. Sad story, but let's keep a look at that, too.

Putting together, what people were willing to tell the past few years, it looks like this:

William Cheung gave an interview were he told, that he was the best Wing Chun-fighter in the world, even Bruce Lee feared him. And he would proof that to anybody willing to fight.

That made KRK and some of his students think and they started planning an attack on William Cheung. Leung Ting provided them with some 'anti-William-Cheung-tactics' and out of ten volunteers Emin Boztepe was chosen.

During a seminar, William Cheung was told that he was to give an interview to a magazine, so he put on some traditional 'gear'. But when he came out, there were several people buliding a circle and holding back his students and there was one young guy saying 'you want to fight, here I come, 3 ... 2 ... 1' and attacked.

And what happened? Nothing! Both immediately got into clinch and fell to the ground. Emin delievered some punches, both got up, and that's it. How old was William Cheung? I'm not sure, but it was something around 50.

Both sides made mistakes and both sides had to suffer from the results of that incident (Emin having a rep as bully, William Cheung being the one who lost a fight against a guy with only 3 or 4 years training and the EWTO, Leung Ting and KRK as people who ambush others).


Nice bit of history, right? But still I don't see, why that story should be told over and over again. First: There's a search-function. Second: The politics at that time were totally different to todays politics. People changed, too. To get a look at todays persons it doesn't make any sense to look at what the person did 20 oder 30 years ago - one has to look at what the person does today. That's why I don't like these topics about what Leung Ting did when he was young.


Armin.

[Cang Long]

Nice bit of history, right? But still I don't see, why that story should be told over and over again. First: There's a search-function. Second: The politics at that time were totally different to todays politics. People changed, too. To get a look at todays persons it doesn't make any sense to look at what the person did 20 oder 30 years ago - one has to look at what the person does today. That's why I don't like these topics about what Leung Ting did when he was young.
Armin,
Thanks for the history lesson and well said on the matter. You obviously have strong feeling on the matter and handled them very appropriately from the way this reads. Hopefully future writings on the topic will be done as well.

[Armin]

Hi Cang Long,

it took me a while to answer you, time's too short at the moment. Sorry.

You obviously have strong feeling on the matter and handled them very appropriately from the way this reads.
Well, actually yes, I have strong feelings on that matter. See, over here, there seems to be nothing else to talk about in nearly all internet forums. Instead of exchanging knowledge and experience, everybody is talking this and that about the EWTO, Leung Ting and Keith Kernspecht.

I don't know, somehow it's very sad and it makes me angry. There are some very good and experienced masters over here, with decades of martial arts- and wing chun-knowledge. But it's impossible to talk to them in a normal way - even these masters spend their time talking gossip and throwing mud at other people (you remember the word? Something with throwing mud at others and having dirty hands!).

There are two or three people, that don't take part in this. But if you manage to meet them and train with them - they start talking bulls**t while training.

Imagine you going to Sifu Meng, spending time and money, and he'd be talking about the weather all day. Doesn't make any sense, right?

And that's my point of view: It doesn't matter who, where or what. It won't make you any better - just shut up and train. :)

Hopefully future writings on the topic will be done as well.
Well, true. But I'd prefer discussing with WT-people about differences and similarities, technical and conceptional stuff. Getting new ideas, sharing thoughts and experiences.

After all, we ARE one family. It should be possible to sit together, train together, talk together. I am a believer of the mission of the VTM, that's why I take part in all of this. And I do everything over here to spread the idea of the VTM.


Yours,

Armin.

[Cang Long]

Well, true. But I'd prefer discussing with WT-people about differences and similarities, technical and conceptional stuff. Getting new ideas, sharing thoughts and experiences. Armin,
That is true as well but my take is that sharing of any kind done the right way is a good thing. Master Meng is a prime example of that. As a kung fu family memeber of his we really have someone to admire and follow in that direction of the proper way to exchange thoughts and ideas with other families.

[ChangHFYWC]

Hey Armin and Tony,

I completely agree with you guys, The Wing Chun families in general have to much seperation and fueds that have no meaning are still being carried on.
Its sad to see this, when we could all be working together to improve each other skills. But with the VT Museum and willing families this is definately an idea that eventually will be possible. Also another thing to remember Meng Sigung once told me that their is to much bad karma in the world why should we as Martial Arts families add to it? I still hold on to that idea. Hopefully in the future everyone else will see the logic.


I wish you guys the best in your training.

p.s. Im looking forward to training and meeting with you Tony in the Instructors training coming up.



take care,
zach

[Cang Long]

Zach,
All the best to you and yours as well during this holiday season and far beyond into the future.

I too look forward to training with you in the near future here. Armin you too are more than welcome to join us anytime you can get away ;)

Be well always

[Armin]

Hi!

Well, I got to tell you: I HATE all you guys!!! ;) :) You are able to come together everyday and train together. And I sit here, several thousand miles away. I'd like to train with all of you, too!!!

If there's a millionaire around here - won't you send your private jet to get me?! *winkandnicesmilewithbigeyes*

No, serious: I'm really looking forward to every possible trip to the US and esp. to meeting as many of you all as possible. Just take care of good food (Sifu Meng knows what my wife and I like - just ask him ;) ).

But at the moment it's not possible. I really hope, I can make it next year. The planning already started and I started saving money. Hopefully, my wife and my student Mike will join in, too, like the last time.


Until then!

Armin.

[ChangHFYWC]

Hey Armin,

I cant wait to meet and have the opportunity to train with you as well.

Like you said, it would be great if you can make it next year. We'll all be looking forward to it.



Best of luck with training.




take care,
Zach