Newbie

[laufighter]

Hi,

I ahve just signed into this forum and it looks nice enough.

My name is Ross and I am from the UK I train in Lau Gar Kuen and I am currently on a hunt to trace its lineage from the UK as not a lot is known about it. I hope some of you guys can shed some light on the style, or point me in the right direction.

cheers,

Ross

[MarkJ]

Hi Ross

welcome to the forum, I think you will find a lot of interesting material being discussed here, not sure if you will get any more info on the Lau Gar lineage though, ive been following that thread on MAP just out of curiosity.
As for me, I trained Lau Gar under Humphrey Broomes between 1987 - 1995, before moving to the USA about the same time he split from the BKFA.

I now consider myself extremely fortunate to have the privilege of being in the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Kuen Instructors program.

The VTM headed by Master Benny Meng has done a lot of research on southern kung fu styles, looking into the roots of Wing Chun, maybe they have some info for you, especially considering the similarity between the Siu lim Tau and Jorn Sau forms ?

good luck on your search
Mark

[laufighter]

Hi Mark,

thanks for your reply. Oooh so your real old school Lau!!

Yeah I think its gonna be a long tough research project this one. The only thing I have found of any indication is a picture, it looks like a very old drawing and is linked to a Lau Gar description. The site has a list of Kungfu styles and each style has its own personal style pic!!

This pic is of what seems to be the knee stop and tigers claw to the throat of the Bac Pye Jurn set (dont know if you remember it?)

Also what is the VTM (excuse my ignorance!)

CHeers,

Ross

[MarkJ]

Ross

Yeah I remember Bac Pye Jurn, but havent performed it in a long time.

VTM is the Ving Tsun Museum in Dayton Ohio, Master Meng is my Sigung. The Museum has done extensive research into Wing Chuns roots, and has a lot of knowledge of Southern Shoalin styles, also have a lot of contacts in china and elsewhere.

heres a link

http://home.vtmuseum.org/

later
Mark

[laufighter]

Cheers mate, I took a look around and found it! Have sent an email to Your Master (I think!).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v365/bumeyes/LauGarKuen.jpg

this is the pic I have found!

[sauchi]

Howdy Laufighter,

Welcome to the forum!!!

Can you tell me more about Lau Gar?

By looking at the picture you posted it looked like a Hung Gar drawing I saw of Lum Jo.

Talk to you later.

Sauchi

[laufighter]

hi, i have since found out that the picture is of Hung Gar Master Lam Sai Wing.

Basically, the style I learn is said to have come from the 5 families as taught by Master Lau Saam Ngian (3 eyed Lau)

As I know it our history is that Jee Sin taught 3 eyed Lau, (3 eyed lau learned this in the province of Guangxi at the Gui Lin temple on the Bac pye Mountain) now my problem is that it skips a few generations and ends in the hands of Master Tang Hoi Ching and then Master Wan Goon Wing, from here my current Masters Grandfather, Yau Luk Sau had been training with Master Tang then Master Wing for 15 years. After Master Wing died Master Yau returned from Guangxi to Kowloon and taught his family (and his grandson My Master Yau).

In the early 60's Master Yau moved to england, and with him he brought the style. In 1974 the British Kungfu Association was set up and Master Yau was asked to be its chief instructor.

Now there has been much controversy over lineage paths to Lau Gar UK. Many in the UK have said that it has no direct link to Old Lau Gar and has been completely made up by Master Yau and a few others from a combination of other martial arts back in the 70's martial craze.

I know that Hung and Lau are closely linked and that there are Lau Gar forms adopted by Hung because the Hung and Lau fathers were class mates.

I have been informed that there is no link between UK Lau and Mainland Lau.

However I have searched now for many hours over a period of days, and I cannot find anything on Lau Gar practised in mainland China, I have had a few emails saying that styles disapear all the time due to the chinese gov emphasising more time and effort with competition wushu, therefore more trad styles are lost all of the time.

Some believe that Lau is still taught in pockets of mainland china yet there is no proof.

With regards to it being made up, I know that the syllabus was created in the UK for westerners to use, we have to learn a series of hand and kick blocks, they were implemented here (but taken from our forms).

With regards to our forms, much is argued over where they are from as they are very different to Lau Hung forms, and bear little resembelance. People have argued that our forms are an amalgamation of various forms taken from other styles, for example our second set, Jorn Sau is very much like Sil Lum Tao and Bil Jee.

Our 3rd set, Charp Choi (drilling punches) which utilises Phoneix eye throughout, is said to be similar to a southern mantis form.

Other than that I know nothing of any of the other forms apart from some were extended and a few were improved so that both sides (right and left) were trained equally. Which in all due respect can be done by the Master, its only when others change without consent there is a problem.

The way I see it is that from master to master year to year, arts change, I doubt very much that Master Yau's grandfather was an exact carbon copy of his master. They add swop and change things all the time, its called evolution.

And for Master Yau to just think the style up out of the blue and make it as strong as it is over the past 30 years is quite impossible. He must have brought something with him!

Also I have been told by one of our guardians that he was once invited to an old Kungfu Masters funeral, if he was not of genuine lineage then he would not have been invited. That day he performed forms from our style, it is documented on film.

I know this is long winded, but it is a long winded affair really.

Also if anyone can get me any links to the Gui Lin temple in Guangxi that would be great!

I hope this explains something,

Ross

[laufighter]

Originally posted by laufighter

Our 3rd set, Charp Choi (drilling punches) which utilises Phoneix eye throughout, is said to be similar to a southern mantis form.


Sorry i mmixed up arts, it is similar to the Pak Mei form Gou Bo Toi.

Also with regards o the Hung form it is common consensus that the Lau form were named after the family that introduced them not Lau Gar and that the staff set is actually from Mok Gar

Ross

[Eric]

Hey LauFighter,

Welcome to the forum; It'll be nice to have someone around to tell us if Mark has just been making his stuff up all these years! (Just kidding Sihing ;) )

I understand that the British Lau Gar team is pretty top-notch, do they have a website that you know of?

[laufighter]

thanks eric!

Yes they have a fair few websites ill get some links to a few, there is the assocation homepage

www.laugar-kungfu.com

but pretty much each instructor has his or her own page too!

Much of the controversy has started over traditionalism with the style due to the clubs success in semi contact and sport karate.

From what Ive been told it was LauGar who changed the face of points sparring as trad karate style where still fighting in trad satnces etc, then lau devised the bouncey bouncey side on position and the blitz technique, the like of alfie lewis and kevin the jedi brewerton used. It was (so iv been told) taken from a fencing move and the sword was replaced with the backfist and rev. punch!

Due to this movement (into competitive) many said Lau wasnt traditional because of its sport involevment. And the impression is quite rightly made, if you walk into many lau schools its all points training and hardly any Kungfu. But it depends where you go and who you train with.

I teach both Lau Gar and Kickboxing, and I differentiate between the two. I teach my kungfu as traditional as possible whereas I teach kick as kick! At my school we have edged away from points in the last efw years cos its basically crap. There is nothing in it, you dont walk away with a sense of achievement after winning because its like tick with a bit of sting in it! We are pretty much full contact fighters with the kick. And when sparring in kungfu we try to apply the kungfu to it!! Although there is only so much you can do with 16oz gloves on!

As of late i have been tryin to chase lineage, just for personal interest more than anything. I will find more than what is available on the web, but if i find that the whole system was made up on the back of a beer mat I wont care because I train for the love of training not for the love of politics. I have the best instructors who are well respected in the martial arts community here, they have made me the person I am today and have done that through Lau Gar. If I can make a difference to someone elses lief by teachin it then im a happy man. Im sure you guys who teach will agree, theres nothing morepleasing than watching your kids pass their grade. As they run out with a big grin on your face you think "I did that!"

Passing down your skills to ther to protect the style and to make them better people. That is what its al about now!

[Cang Long]

Hello Ross,
Welcome to the forum pleasure to have you here hopefully the others can shed some light on your search for info regarding Lau Gar Kuen, best of luck in your search and don't hesitate to join in any of the other discussions that catch your eye.

http://www.laugar.org.uk/
http://www.laugar.co.uk/
http://laugarkickboxing.tripod.com/laugarkungfuhistory/

[mario bava]

Hello laufighter

This is a belated welcome form a Kung Fu neghbour of yours across the pond in Ireland! Welcome to the forum and hope to have many chats with you. Good luck.

Cheerio, Gary.

www.hungfayiireland.com

[Daniel]

Hello Ross,

Welcom to the forum I hope you injoy it here.