Grandmaster Gee's HFY Workshop in NYC - May 8, 2004

[Kalish]

Sifu Gee recently held a HFY workshop in New York City, NY. The following are my notes from the weekend's events. Also, Sifu Meng has asked me to post his write-up as well. First, I would like to express my thanks to both my Sifu and my Sigung for spending all this quality HFY time with us. None of my learning and growth would be possible without the direct experience that they are providing for me. I would also like to thank Sifu Miguel Hernandez for graciously allowing us to stay at his home while in NYC.

Here are my notes:

I left Rochester at 2pm on Friday, arriving in NYC’s Manhattan Chinatown at a little after 8pm. I then met up with Sifu Meng and had a quick bite to eat at a small Chinatown restaurant famous for its BBQ. Afterwards we drove to Long Island to pick up Grandmaster Gee who was visiting some of his relatives. During the drive, Sifu Meng gave me an update on the school expansions that were happening in Dayton.

On our way back to Chinatown, we stopped by the home of Sifu Miguel Hernandez, my Sibaak in the Moy Yat kung fu family. Sibaak Miguel was also kind enough to have us all stay at his home for the weekend. The four of us then continued on to Chinatown where we met Yohanan, a student of Grand Master Gee’s whose job requires that he split his time between NYC and SF. Around 1am we all sat down at a restaurant to a very nice multi-course meal and talked about kung fu. Some great discussion topics resulted in our not getting to sleep until around 4:30am. Some interesting highlights from that discussion with Grand Master Gee included the following:

“Bamboo Needles & Coins” – While you can say that Biu Ji focuses on forearm, elbows, fingers, or pressure points, in reality indoor HFY Biu Ji is about the no-nonsense life & death aspect of combat. Previous generation Sifu were experts in small, hidden weapons like needles under your fingers or small coins to slice sensitive targets such as the eyes. This aspect of small weapons and stealth was critical to survival since an opponent would easily be able to see in advance if you had a Gwan or Baat Jaam Dou. This life and death aspect highlights the difference between someone that is practicing an art verses real life, “down and dirty” survival. In the past, the fighters and bodyguards could easily be faced by experts in other systems or multiple opponents. The hidden weapons allowed them to penetrate Iron Shirt Qigong or dispatch an opponent quickly.

“Chan Experience” – When Sigung was asked what “idea” that is being referred to in “Siu Nim Tau”, he said that his answer wouldn’t really matter. He said, “I don’t define your experience. I present a method (faat) for your interpretation.” Sigung said that his Sifu used to say, “When it rains, you get wet. You feel it.” That is your experience.

On Saturday morning Sifu, Sigung, Sibaak Miguel and I went to dim sum. The conversation covered the following topics:

“Comparing Martial Art Systems” – Sigung discussed comparing martial arts systems based on three levels of criteria: techniques, concepts, and principles. These three levels represent an approach that is similar to the progression of learning in HFY. He used Hung Fa Yi and Chi Sim as an example to illustrate this comparison of systems. The first level is the “technique” level. This is the level of shapes and surface appearances. At this level, HFY has more similarities to modern Wing Chun that it does to Chi Sim. The second level is the “concept” level, which refers to the ideas expressed in the system. These ideas are part of the human experience of things. They are your ideas; they are the ideas of styles, groups, systems, et cetera. HFY and Chi Sim have concepts such as Tin Yan Dei in common. The third level is the “principle” level and refers to those things that are based on natures and thus are absolute. At this level there is nothing that you can add and nothing that you can subtract. If something exists, it is because nature allows it to exist, not because you want it to exist. An example of this that is found in both HFY and Chi Sim is the principle of Time, three-dimensional Space, and Energy (TS&E). Sifu Meng went on to discuss the Five Shaolin Wisdoms of the Chi Sim system. Everyone could see the parallels between the two systems of Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun and Chi Sim Weng Chun. The five Wisdoms that were discussed: Shape (Ying), Meaning/Concept (Yi), Principle (Lei), Reality (Faat), and Skill/Showmanship/Expression (Seut).

“Gaak Mat Ji Ji” – Part of the HFY learning methodology is to be taught and to understand everything within a certain boundary or “box”. You then move on to learn the contents of another “box”. This step-by-step “partitioned” learning process is designed to incrementally raise your overall awareness. HFY’s Tin Yan Dei Saam Mo Kiu (TYD SMK) refers to understanding the natures and timeframes within the boundary of the universe.

To the Shaolin Monks, the box they study is referred to by the phrase “Tin Yan Dei” which means Heaven, Human, Earth. This phrase describes a triune relationship between Spirit (Heaven), Mind (Human), and Body (Earth). These three elements of Body, Mind and Spirit form what they considered to be “reality”.

For the Shaolin Monks, Tin Yan Dei is the box and they must study everything within the realms of Body, Mind and Spirit. By extension, this means that the monks must study everything in life. Many observations made by Chan masters are only now being explained by modern science. Among the observations of past Chan masters were such ideas as:

• Life is only a change in state rather than something being ultimately destroyed
• Life is about changing and adapting to current conditions

As the Shaolin Monks studied and experienced life through the lens of Tin Yan Dei, fighting and self-defense became a natural extension of their focus. Life and death are part of the human condition. It is an old axiom that “life is a death sentence.” The Shaolin Monks discovered that what is true in fighting is also true in life. For example, if one cannot change and adapt to the actions of one’s opponent, one will die. This principle of changing and adapting is true not only in fighting but also the business world, in competition for a mate, in competition for food or resources, etc.

To the Shaolin Monks, in order to live one must die. In training self-defense and fighting skills the monks faced their own personal death each day. It is said that a Shaolin Monk is fearless. This ability has less to do with meditative states than with the simple fact that the monks face a form of death in their training and become inured to it by realizing and experiencing death as only a form of change. In a similar manner, In order to be born a fetus must first give up its life in the womb.

Looking at the Tin Yan Dei box of the Shaolin Monks, there is a layering. This layering is called “Saam Mo Kiu”, meaning Three Connecting Bridges. Tin Yan Dei forms the box and Saam Mo Kiu are the layers to the box. Saam Mo Kiu points to levels of intelligence and experience.

With this focus on three layers, the martial arts cultivation of the Shaolin Monks eventually reached the point at which nothing that could be added or subtracted. The monks recognized what was enough in each moment. Each structure and position has a specific energy level. In recognizing the reality of the moment, the monks discovered fundamental principles that relate in all areas of life.

In understanding Saam Mo Kiu, techniques are at the stage of Fau Kiu – it is possible for people to compare and argue about the relative strengths and weaknesses of techniques. Concepts come from personal experience and are at the stage of Saan Kiu – it is possible for people to discuss the similarities of techniques to express the same concept and there is little room to argue. Principles are at the stage of Weng Kiu – there is no room for argument against principles.

[Kalish]

“The No-Return Monk” – Once there was a man who drank and gambled every night. Late one night he returned home from his usual pastime and went to sleep. He awoke during the night to find a stranger in his house. He asked the stranger what he was doing there. The stranger replied that was a traveling monk and that he had asked the man’s wife if they could put him up for the night. They ended up having a deep discussion on philosophy until morning. The monk then thanked the man for his hospitality and said that had to leave and continue on his journey. But the man was fascinated by the conversation that they had been having and asked the monk if he could accompany him for the first 15 miles of his journey so that they could keep talking. So they started out. After 15 miles had passed, the monk thanked the man again and wished him well on his trip home. However, the man was so interested in what the monk had to say, that he asked if he could accompany him for another 15 miles. At the end of the 2nd 15 miles when the monk again said goodbye, the man decided in that moment to give up his former life, follow the monk and continue learning. He never returned home and never saw his family again.
(This story was based on true events. The stranger turned out to be the royal professor to the emperor who was returning to the capital city. In the moment, the man had no distortions and woke up to the meaning of his life. He was true to himself. Knowledge has many layers. All your accomplishments and certificates eventually become limitations.)

After dim sum, we all went to meet with Yohanan, Brad Shipp (a martial arts instructor), and several other students in Manhattan. Grand Master Gee then gave a workshop spanning 8 hours and many topics. The workshop started with Sifu Meng giving an overview of the history of the Ving Tsun Museum and its current research. Sigung then talked about the development of Wing Chun, including discussion on how it was developed at Shaolin in order to counter all other martial arts styles based on nature instead of human experience. He also gave a brief description of Wing Chun’s characteristic reactional chi Sau training and how you can describe the system from three levels (based on the audience): techniques, concepts, and principles. The HFY approach is to first know how to deal with reality first. When you get close and get involved, either you know how to react or you don’t. Once you’ve developed the true nature (2nd nature), Chi Sau is a method to bring about proper reactions.

Sigung’s next topic was the Weng Kiu level of kung fu, which is the level of highest focus. He referred to it as kung fu that is “forever” and cannot be challenged. At this level, there is no doubt, no thinking. You mind understands and your body knows via 2nd nature at a higher level. You leave your mind behind as your two arms and two legs operate independently in space and time. From a Chan perspective, you first let go of thinking and your personal preferences. You then let go of human experience. HFY is just a name, just a door going to true nature. Nature cannot be explained in words or in terms of human experience.

The next discussion centered on HFY’s Siu Nim Tau (SNT) form and the ideas of Centerline and Six Gates. The SNT form introduces you to the little idea and the Wing Chun way. A Wing Chun guy doesn’t worry about a toolbox of techniques; he worries about how to deal with you on Centerline, with respect to the Six Gates, and with proper regard for energy. In terms of energy, you need to understand the nature or energy and how to neutralize it. In HFY, energy is viewed in terms of on and off as opposed to internal or external. A Wing Chun guy is not afraid to engage your hands. He moves forward spontaneously (and without delay) using Economy of Motion. How do you deal with someone’s hands? You deal with them through the Centerline concept, not by merely using techniques.

Comparing HFY with other families of Wing Chun (modern-day or public versions), some observations can be made. Modern Wing Chun focuses heavily on sensitivity training and Centerline. HFY centers on the Saam Mo Kiu philosophy and the use of the Wing Chun Formula to express yourself in harmony with the principle of time, space, and energy. Training the Wing Chun Formula in SNT helps you refine the space that you want to occupy. In fact, in Grand Master Gee’s opinion, a fighter could be trained in a rather short time using the SNT form, the expression of the formula, and the Deui Ying Jeui Ying concept. Sigung then had me lead the other attendees in expressing the SNT form.

If you have a good SNT identity, your hands “feel the space”. Sigung demonstrated this with the help of Brad Shipp. Starting from a wrist-to-wrist position, he had Brad try to grab his wrist. Using sensitivity and an awareness of space & time, Sigung was repeatedly able to defeat the grab using a Jut Da. Sigung further illustrated his point about the WC formula and TS&E using a HFY Laap Sau. As Brad applied energy, Sigung’s hand flowed through his high reference and expressed a Laap Sau to its proper reference point. This proper control of TS&E resulted in a Sigung being in a Jeui Ying position. He verified this by having Brad try to punch with his other hand. Due to superior occupation of space, Sigung was able to easily execute a Paak Da. Sigung clearly was able to influence Brad’s center without Brad affecting Sigung’s center. Sigung complemented this discussion by saying that many other martial arts are uncomfortable being at trapping range. He told the story of a time where as an 18 year old, he tested his skill against a 45-year-old tae kwon do practitioner in a wrist-to-wrist challenge. Due to his Wing Chun training, he was able to check the man’s face 10 straight times without ever being touched himself. Grand Master Gee also recounted the story of how he met his Sifu in a park and how his Sifu was the only person to ever corner him or put him on the spot in combat. This sparked Sigung’s interest in HFY and ultimately led him to leave his family martial arts behind and commit himself to HFY.

[Kalish]

Grand Master Gee then wanted the people in attendance to experience HFY for themselves. Since several people had never seen HFY, he took a Saan Sau approach. In this case, Saan Sau has the meaning of taking you “from nowhere to somewhere”. Saan Sau is a quick approach to training a fighter without going through the processes of the whole system. He started by sharing simple two-man exercises that illustrated the physical expression of the HFY system and formula. Several components were included the following exercises:

“Structural Energy” – In the martial arts world, a lot of people talk about how to train power and energy. The HFY approach to training is to develop energy through proper structure before even beginning to train for power. When mechanical structure is proper, energy is not wasted. A secondary component to this approach in training is using a superior structure, coupled with knowledge of space and time, to neutralize incoming energy. HFY students are allowed to develop attributes as a complement only after developing structure and energy in relation to space and time. The first exercise gave participants experience in using proper structure to defeat an incoming attack. In this exercise, Person #1 (P1) initiates the exercise from a neutral ready stance by punching with his right hand towards Person #2’s (P2’s) High Reference Point located between his mouth and nose. P2 offers a challenge to P1 by bringing his left hand Wu Sau to high reference. This exercise is about structure as opposed to technique. P2’s Wu Sau uses structural energy to occupy the space so that he now calls the shots. He uses good Chum Jaang with his elbow on the Yin Line. Sigung said that you occupy “like the rain coming down”. The act of P2 establishing his identity reflects the fact that he is not “looking for trouble”. He is allowing P1 another chance. If P1 continues to come in then he will be hit. Sigung also said, “once you have body karma, you stole the world of time, space, and energy.” The attitude of HFY is that one must have proper structure and maintain center with forward energy. Don’t give up space – you will lose time. This exercise physically expresses the concept of Being Direct and gives students an experience of proper structure.

“One Line, or Centerline” – Person #1 (P1) again initiates the exercise from a neutral ready stance by punching with his right hand towards Person #2’s (P2’s) High Reference Point. P2 brings his right arm up into a Taan Sau on the outside of P1’s right arm and aimed directly towards P2’s Centerline. This is a physical expression of Centerline theory. It is why the SNT form is expressed without footwork and stays on center. Note that although P2 gains the Centerline with this movement, he is not in a position to hit P1 yet. If he were to try to hit from here, P1 could challenge him by bringing his right hand Faat Sau between P2’s hands and striking. To prevent this, P2 must maintain proper Two-Line structure. If P1 attempts to challenge by presenting energy, the proper response for P2 would be a Laap Da (right hand Laap, left hand Da).

“Five-Line and Two-Line” – Person #1 (P1) again initiates the exercise from a neutral ready stance by punching with his right hand towards Person #2’s (P2’s) High Reference Point. P2 brings his left arm up into a Taan Sau on the inside of P1’s right arm and aimed towards P2’s shoulder line. This is a physical expression of Five-Line Theory. Note that for proper gate theory implementation, P2’s Taan Sau must first pass up through his High Reference Point and then sweep the gate. Sigung also discussed how this Five-Line Theory expression also enables good Two-Line structure by avoiding having a “long/short” problem.

The next layer version of these three exercises would be to allow freer, more realistic combat footwork/movement. Instead of stationary positions, the exercises can be done from floating positions, applying the concepts and follow-ups. Lastly, at the third layer, you can perform the three exercises and see if the principles are being expressed as well.

Sigung then switched subjects to Deui Ying Kiu Sau, the second phase of the HFY Kiu Sau progression. This training focuses on how you enter an opponent’s space and bridge with him when starting from a facing position. These exercises were broken down into four timeframes and represented a more detailed set than previously trained in Deui Ying Kiu Sau:

“Timeframe #1: Dead Side Entry Reactional Training”
Step 1 – Person #2 (P2) starts out in Jong Sau position with his left hand as lead hand (Kiu Sau) and right hand as guard hand (Mun Sau). Person #1 (P1) initiates the exercise from a neutral ready stance by punching with his right hand towards P2’s High Reference Point.
Step 2 – P2 responds to P1’s punch with a Taan Da using his lead hand for the Taan Sau.
Step 3 – P1 must now react to the fact that his lead hand has been taken off of center and that a punch is now coming in on center. He does this by using his Mun Sau to express a Paak Sau to the incoming punch. This reactional training teaches P1 to Paak Sau back to Centerline in this type of scenario. From a body mechanics perspective, the Paak Sau should make contact with the entire base of the palm (thumb pad and palm heel) for full contact on Centerline. Also, the energy of the Paak should be dynamics and alive, not stiff and mechanical.

“Timeframe #2: Live Side Entry Reactional Training”
Step 1 – Person #2 (P2) starts out in Jong Sau position with his right hand as lead hand (Kiu Sau) and left hand as guard hand (Mun Sau). Person #1 (P1) initiates the exercise from a neutral ready stance by punching with his right hand towards P2’s High Reference Point.
Step 2 – P2 responds to P1’s punch with a Taan Da using his back hand for the Taan Sau.
Step 3 – Again, P1 must now react to the fact that his lead hand has been taken off of center and that a punch is now coming in on center. He does this by using his Mun Sau to express a Paak Sau to the incoming punch. Note that due to the fact that P2 used his Mun Sau as the Taan Sau, P1 has less time to react to the situation with a Paak Sau. This training allows P1 to experience and feel this aspect of time difference.

[Kalish]

“Timeframe #3: Dead Side Entry Bridging Training”
Step 1 – Person #2 (P2) starts out in Jong Sau position with his left hand as lead hand (Kiu Sau) and right hand as guard hand (Mun Sau). Person #1 (P1) initiates the exercise from a neutral ready stance by punching with his right hand towards P2’s High Reference Point.
Step 2 – P2 bridges with P1’s punch with a Two-Line Bong Sau using his lead left hand Kiu Sau for the Bong Sau and his Mun Sau for the Two-Line hand.
Step 3 – P1’s right hand then changes from a punch to a Huen Sau and Gaan Sau on P2’s left hand Bong Sau. Simultaneously as he does this, P1 does a Leung Yi Ma switch and punches with his left hand.
Step 4 – P2 then bridges with P1’s left hand punch with a right hand Bong Sau.
Step 5 – P1 Huen/Gaans, switches, and punches again. However, this time he focuses on immediately expressing 2 line.
Step 6 – P2 bridges with P1’s Two-Line right hand punch with a left hand Bong Sau.
Skill Challenges:
SC#1 – In step 5, P2 could challenge P1’s Huen/Gaan by slap striking P1’s head.
SC#2 – In step 6, if P2’s Bong Sau structure is weak, P1’s punch can push its way in to strike.
SC#3 – In step 6, if P1’s punch structure is weak, P2’s Bong Sau can take it out while his other hand punches.
SC#4 – In step 6, if P1’s punch takes P2’s Bong Sau down with Chum Sau, P2 can punch with his other hand.

“Timeframe #4: Live Side Entry Bridging Training”
Step 1 – Person #2 (P2) starts out in Jong Sau position with his right hand as lead hand (Kiu Sau) and left hand as guard hand (Mun Sau). Person #1 (P1) initiates the exercise from a neutral ready stance by punching with his right hand towards P2’s High Reference Point.
Step 2 – P2 bridges with P1’s punch with a Two-Line Bong Sau using his rear left hand Mun Sau for the Bong Sau while his right Kiu Sau hand challenges P1’s human gate. This forces P1 to bridge with P2’s right hand using a left hand Gaan Sau.
Step 3 – P1’s left hand Gaan Sau then circles out around P2’s right hand. Simultaneously as he does this, P1 does a Leung Yi Ma switch and punches with his left hand while immediately expressing 2 line with his right hand.
Step 4 – P2 harmonizes with P1’s Two-Line right hand punch with a left hand Bong Sau.
Skill Challenges:
SC#1 – In step 3, P2 could challenge P1’s Gaan by slap striking P1’s head.
SC#2 – In step 4, if P2’s Bong Sau structure is weak, P1’s punch can push its way in to strike.
SC#3 – In step 4, if P1’s punch structure is weak, P2’s Bong Sau can take it out while his other hand punches.
SC#4 – In step 4, if P1’s punch takes P2’s Bong Sau down with chum Sau, P2 can punch with his other hand.

After the training portion of the workshop, various people from different martial arts families (Moy Yat, Wong Shun Leung, Jungyae Korean martial art, Ving Tsun Museum) demonstrated the forms, Muk Yan Jong, and concepts from their respective lineages. It was great to participate in such an open and sharing environment. The group then had an interesting discussion, speculating on the history of several Wing Chun lineages. The workshop formally ended at 7pm. While everyone made plans for dinner and more training, I (unfortunately) had to start my long drive home. I lasted until around 1am before I had to pull into a rest stop for a quick 2-hour nap. I then drove the rest of the way back home to Rochester. Such is kung fu life.

Grand Master Gee summarized the workshop thus: today’s martial artists realize that they need to be complete. Their approach is to learn many different styles and learn/experience as much as they can. This approach is time consuming and can be, at times, confusing. For experienced martial artists, learning the focused (Weng Kiu) approach is the quickest way.

Andy Kalish

[Kalish]

Andy did an excellent job of covering the main parts of the weekend. This was an historical weekend – it was the first time Grand Master Gee did a workshop on the East Coast. With the discussion of the natures, history, and philosophy coupled with the clarity of the techniques and the practicality of their applications, Grand Master Gee left participants with a sense of awe for the HFY system. As Sifu said, “wake up and smell the coffee.” All I can say is, “thanks again for the cup of coffee.” I can appreciate it with all my six senses. I liked the monk story very much – once the pure nature is experienced, you can never go back to the old nature.

Andy covered the first two days so I will finish the report with our Sunday activities.

After the workshop on Saturday we went out with some of the participants to Chinatown in Queens for dinner. As it was Mother’s Day weekend, we had quite a wait for a table. The discussions on kung fu went all night, primarily focused on how the HFY principles allow a martial artist to recognize and identify all styles. Grand Master Gee gave an analogy that when you go to Hong Kong there is one card you can buy to pay for transportation on the subway, taxis, and buses. This is both efficient and high-tech. In other cities, you have to buy a bus pass, a subway token, and pay for taxis with cash. This is inefficient. The Shaolin system understands the nature of things. The Saam Mo Kiu concept of HFY can apply in all areas of human endeavor: fighting, philosophy, science, relationships, religion, driving, business, etc. The Saam Mo Kiu concept is not limited to only a few categories – this is why you cannot state that HFY is only a science. Grand Master Gee also used the technique of Fuhk Sau to illustrate his point by covering the true nature of Fuhk Sau, form and shape, application, concept and principles. When you understand the true nature of Fuhk Sau you can use it for offence, defense or change it to another technique in the proper space and time.

Grand Master Gee is a person that lives his art. Any time and place, we are either discussing or practicing hands-on… in the restaurant, in the park, in Starbucks…

Sunday morning we got up early and trained more HFY in Sifu Miguel’s home. I’d like to take this opportunity to thank Miguel for putting us up for the weekend. I had a chance to remark that one of the uniqueness of Grand Master Moy Yat’s teaching was his Chan background. One of the interesting discussions we had was on the similarities between Hung Fa Yi and Chi Sim Weng Chun. Most of the Wing Chun community cannot identify with Chi Sim as being Wing Chun – they just make the assumption that Chi Sim is just Hung Ga under a different name. However, Hung Fa Yi can identify closer with Chi Sim than it can with modern expressions of Wing Chun due to concepts and principles. It will be very interesting when the two Grand Masters meet. I think that will occur when we travel back to the Southern Shaolin temple together.

After leaving Miguel’s place, Grand Master Gee and I met up with Yohanan and toured many of the famous landmarks in New York City. Grand Master Gee liked New York City so much he said that he wouldn’t mind moving. Besides being a fun day, I had the opportunity to discuss and work out a few details with the overall HFY Organization and its strategy for growth. That night, I drove Grand Master Gee back out to his relative’s house on Long Island. I left NYC around 11:30 PM, drove straight through the night, and returned to Dayton by 9:30 Monday morning.

For me personally it was good to experience more clarity and depth into the HFY system directly from the Grand Master. It was also a good opportunity to hang out with my Kung Fu family in this historical, first East Coast workshop.

Sifu Meng