wing chun-hung gar connection article

[Andreas Hoffman]

Interesting article about wing chun and Hung Gar connection written from a Hung Gar teacher:

http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/wengshunkuen/hungga.html

[Op108wc]

Before Wong Fei Hung the Hung Ga style was only a short-range style, with high stances and only 3 sets; thus resembling Weng Shun, Wing Chun and Yong Chun crane much more.


It is touching the Shaolin origin
--3 sets; SNT, CK, BJ.
--a short-range style; Weng/Wing Chun
--with high stances; Yee Gee Kim Yang Mah

[TenTigers]

good article, but I strongly dissagree with the notion that Hung-Ga is a long-range system. Long arm does not mean long range, and the long arm techniques such as the element punches are usually thrown knee to knee.

[TenTigers]

To add to this-the long bridges, which were added to the system due to Wong Fei-Hung's relationship with Lama P'ai stylist, Wong Yun-Lum, are also used to attack from the long range in order to close with the opponent, which is where the short bridges come into play. Coincidentally, the "Wing Chun Entry Technique" so popularized by William Cheung, is an identical technique within Hung Kuen's Ng Ying Kuen.

[Cang Long]

Gentlemen,
Thanks for the information. Ten Tigers
is Lam Chun Fai, Sifu someone you are familiar with?

[SupYeeKiuSau]

"Before Wong Fei Hung the Hung Ga style was only a short-range style, with high stances and only 3 sets; thus resembling Weng Shun, Wing Chun and Yong Chun crane much more."

Actually this is a topic of recurring debate even within Hung Ga circles. The jury is still out as to whether the larger movements were always a part of the Hung Ga style or if they were imported at a later date, or if they were imported exactly when they were (some say when the art migrated from Fukien to Kwangtung).

There are a number of realities that do not conform to the above statement. For instance a brother of mine knows and taught me the first form of a Hung Ga style from Hung Hei Kwun but not from the Wong line that uses the "dai ma/chong kuen" (big horse/long bridges).

Regards,
SYKS

[TenTigers]

SYKS-that is interesting. Do you suppose that it could be due to the fact that Jee Siem supposedly originally came from the Henan Temple before fleeing to Fukien? This might explain the longer bridges in some non-WFH lineages as well.

[duende]

Hey Ten TIgers...

care to respond??

http://hfy108.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=7501#post7501

Thanks! Look forward to reading what you have to say.


Alex

[wengshunkuen]

Hung Ga Kung Fu: back to the Roots of Southern Siulam Monastery.
A comparison with Weng Shun Kuen

by Charris van ’t Slot

Hung Ga kung fu is said to be one of the oldest and most traditional kung fu styles originating from the southern Siulam monastery.

The legends tell that the style was founded by Hung Hei Gun, who lived ca. 1745 - 1825. He was supposed to be a rebel in the Ching dynasty, that sought refugee in the southern Siulam monastery. Here he learned kung fu from the abbot Ji Sin.

When the Siulam monastery was destroyed by the Manchus, Hung Hei Gun was one of the few survivors. He ran into Fong Weng Shun, a girl that was very good in crane style. Eventually he married her and combined her crane style with his lohan and tiger style.

A southern- SiuLam style
There have always been numerous claims that Hung Ga is unchanged from the southern Siulam Monastery.

The first main set, named the Gung Ji Fuk Fu Kuen (Tame the tiger in an I-pattern) was developed by Ji Sin, the abbot of the southern Siulam Monastery.

Next to that it’s said Hung Heigun created the second main set of Hung Ga, named Fu Hok Seung Ying Kuen (Tiger & Crane Set), when he combined styles with his wife Fong Weng Shun.

Different claims
However, in recent time, more styles claim to come from Ji Sin and to be the most unchanged Siulam style. Examples of these styles are Weng Shun Kuen, Wing Chun Kuen and Yong Chun Crane style. They all claim to come from Siulam and all have lovely legends about some girl named "Weng Shun/Wing Chun" (although all styles tell it was not the same girl as in the other style).

Although Hung Heigwun and Ji Sin proabably did exist, there are hardly any facts known about them and certainly not about there kung fu.

So how can we all be so different and claim the same?

Hung Ga and Weng Shun Kuen- a comparison
One of the styles that is said to be closest to the original southern Siulam style is Weng Shun Kuen.

Weng Shun Kuen has just three sets (as all the old styles only had three sets).

Although Weng Shun Kuen shares the names of the sets of the more known versions of Wing Chun, the sets, tactics and use of power are a little different to very different. As most Wing Chun styles will block and attack centerline with an overload of punches (chain punches), Weng Shun prefers to make contact (bridge) centerline, but as soon as contact is made, the side is chosen. Another big difference is that Weng Shun Kuen contains chigong in their forms.

These are also things that still can be found in the Hung Ga style, however in Hung Ga it’s just a small part as many sets have been added.

The Hung Ga practitioner makes contact with the underarms (bridges), controls the power and counters from the side. The only difference with Wen Shun Kuen here is that Hung Ga uses hard power to cut of the attack, where Weng Shun Kuen uses soft power to guide the attacking power away.

Hung Ga uses chigong, only in just in the most advanced main set, named Tit Sin Kuen (Iron Wire).

Weapons
Another thing that Hung Ga and Weng Shun have in common is the use of butterfly knives. As the butterfly knives are originally a southern weapon, the Hung Ga butterfly knives are said to come from southern Siulam as well. The techniques of the butterfly knives of both styles are a like, except that the footwork of Hung Ga is deeper. So this again proves that both styles have the same source.

A big difference is the number of forms and techniques. Hung Ga has much more techniques, more sets and more different weapons.

Where Wing Chun Kuen only has the butterfly knives and pole and Weng Shun Kuen only has butterfly knives, pole, throwing dart and straight sword.

Hung Ga also has many northern weapons, such as broadsword, straigth sword, spear, kwando and many more.

Recent research
Recent research in the Hung Ga history shows that most Hung Ga sets aren’t that old at all.

Many sets, including the famous Tiger & Crane Set, were devised by Wong Fei Hung after 1850. And it is also suspected that the stances and fighting distance were changed by Wong Fei Hung. Wong Fei Hung made the stances deeper and included techniques for long range.

Wong Fei Hung learned many styles and the original southern style was just one of them. Wong Fei Hung combined all his knowledge and created the base of the current Hung Ga.

Before Wong Fei Hung the Hung Ga style was only a short-range style, with high stances and only 3 sets; thus resembling Weng Shun, Wing Chun and Yong Chun crane much more. In time Hung Ga was mixed with several other southern styles and northern styles though, resulting in the current Hung Ga style that is dynamic and powerful with deep, solid stances.

Note: for convenience a differatation is made between Weng Shun and Wing Chun. In Chinese they are however both spoken as wing chun, but have a different characters and meanings.

About the author:

Charris van ’t Slot is a student of Hung Ga grandmaster Lam Chun Fai. He has done a lot of research on the history of Hung Ga and is one of the big forces behind Hung Ga United www.hungga.net, a website devoted to the Hung Ga System. Next to that Charris devotes himself in spreading the Hung Ga. His school is located in Utrecht NL, http://www.hungga.info.

http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/wengshunkuen/hungga.html

-----------

This is the opinion of Charris van 't Slot Sifu, an ex-Hung Ga world champion. I don't agree with everything the article says too. But yes, it has some interesting points worth noting, as GM Hoffmann pointed out. The Wudang Weng Shun Kuen website has much more historical information that one might or might not agree with, but that gives us new food for thought at least.

Respect,

[SupYeeKiuSau]

Hello,

I've taken the liberty of sharing this thread with two other web boards; the Southern Fist Online Forum (http://hungkuennet.forumco.com), and the Lau Family Hung Ga Forum (http://laufamilyhunggar.com).

Cheers,
SYKS

[wengshunkuen]

Dear SupYeeKiuSao and all,

I have no doubt you will be interested in the following article. Please read it with the preceding articles in mind. Enjoy!

The truth about Shaolin Kung Fu- Grandmaster Prof. Rien Bul

At present I am studying the history and (cultural-)contexts of the Chinese Kung Fu. I do so because in my opinion insight in the contexts of Kung Fu is essential for practising it. One can only fully understand the art if one has a full understanding of its core and aims. No matter if the Chinese people like it or not, I keep coming up with the conclusion that the true history of Kung Fu differs somewhat from what they would have liked it to be. There is hardly any version of Kung Fu in existance that hasn't been depending on the so called 'triads' for its survival and its transferance to modern times. These 'triads' originally were secret societies, aiming to bring down the Qing (say 'Tsjing') dynasty. One could say they were a kind of ' terrorists ' avant la lettre who applied guerilla-tactics. Since carrying weapons was prohibited they sought ways of forging the body into weapon. Because these societies trained in secrecy they developed their own symbolism and ways of communicating to be able to recognise oneanother. For a long time they were permitted to train freely and to experiment with their methods in the Buddhist 'Shaolin' (Cant. 'Siu Lum'), until the government decided to burn them down.

If triad-member visited a strange city he would roll up his left sleeve. It would not take long then before someone came over to have a, seemingly innocent, chat with him and casually ask him where he came from. The answer was "From Shaolin", to indicate one was initialised. Almost every triad member practised some 'Shaolin ' (a system practised by the triads) art or another. Therefore the misconception soon arose that every style literally came from Shaolin. In reality the original Shaolin martial arts haven't had as big an influence as is widely assumed. The original, pre-rebel, Shaolin Kung Fu, consisted of fighting with sticks and long-poles. This was a speciality of the Shaolin monks that they were particularly proficient at. When Japanes pirates terrorised the coasts of South-East China for some time the monks of the Fujian temple decided to end the suffering of the people. Armed with nothing but their staves and poles the monks taught the pirates a lesson that kept them away from the shores for a hundred yeras. That was TRUE Shaolin Kung Fu! All the rest is myth. Mere triad lore.
It is still unclear at present if the' hall of eternal spring ' in the Southern Shaolin temple is based on historic fact. But it seems more and more likely. According to legend this was a special hall where the 'secret teachings of Shaolin' were taught. Please note that what we are talking about here means 'the secret ways of training devised by the rebels who were allowed to train at the Shaolin monastaries'. A large part of their knowledge came probably from a whole other temple altogether; a Daoïst temple in the Wudang mountains. It has been proven that, even many centuries before Shaolin even came into existance, in the Daoïst temples people were examining the most efficient manners of overcoming a larger, stronger opponent by using knowledge, logic and proficiëncy aquired by systematic training. This has been at the heart of Chinese Kung Fu ever since.

The Qing dynasty was preceded by a far more popular dynasty; the Ming. Many military men from that were involved in the rebellion that aimed to overthrow the Qing. They possessed an enormous knowledge of warfare they had gathrered over the centuries. It is a proven fact that the early versions of Kung Fu as they had been developed in Wudang had a massive influence on Ming warfare. But even before the anti-Qing rebellion could test their newest developments, they were betrayed and the temples burned. How many really escaped noone knows, but as from that moment on 'the knowledge from Shaolin' spread over China.

The rebels recruited new insurrectionists and founded the Triads . It was mostly through the Triads that the knowledge of Kung Fu spread. I dare even state that without the Triads probably nobody would be able even to perform any kind of authentic Kung Fu today. Everything in the current world of the martial arts that calls itself Chu or Ng refers by means of an onetime consciously carried out distortion to Wu (red) and to its link with the so called ' red family '. When one joined the triads by means of the ' red flower ' ritual, one left his old identity behind and was incorporated in the ' red family ' from that moment on. As a sign of membership of the ' brotherhood ' one conducted the symbol of the red plumflower. This ' brotherhood of the red plumflower' made itself heard of especially during the Taiping rebellion and the so-called ' boxer insurrection '. A lot of current Kung Fu styles still carry references to red (Wu, Ng, Chu etc.) or the plumflower in the name of their style, name of a form in their style and/or in their logo. All this originates from the typical Triade codes/lore and symbolism.
In the Northern Chinese styles one especially frequently hears the reference to the plumflower. There are styles with names like May Hua Quan Shu (Plumflower style), Ng mui Pai (five plums/red plum - style) and several references to plumflowers in the several versions of TaiJi Quan. In southeast China and taiwan the tendencies are more geared toward referring to 'red' than to the actual plumflower. As a result, the references seem further remote than they are in reality.

First Bruce Lee's 'Enter the Dragon' and the televisonseries 'Kung Fu' made Shaolin into a household name . Then Jet Li made the temple extremely popular in mainland China itself with his film 'Shaolin Temple'. The Chinese government jumped on the chance by rebuilding the most famous temple in the Honan district and making it into a tourist attraction. The next problem was; which form of Kung Fu had to be practised there? The styles that had spread from the temple had evolved enormously in the course of time. Not one could still be called 'authentic', aside from the fact that, aside from pole-fighting, there had never been a 'Shaolin Kung Fu style'.

To 'repair' Shaolin Kung Fu the re-creators particularly focused on the best known aspect of the style: the animal forms. They especially 'borrowed' heavily from the style that is widely known for its five animal forms AND claims to descend from Shaolin; Hung Gar Kuen. Hung Gar Kuen (red family fist) is a Southern Chinese style which goes by that name for some hundred years or so. Before that it was known by many different names, probably most notably 'Orthodox Shaolin'.

Hung Gar Kuen was created by Hung Hei Gung, a red-junk rebel and Weng Shun Kuen practitioner who, despite of having very little information, tried to re-create Shaolin five animal fist. He sort of re-invented the wheel a second time by creating a Dragon, Tiger, Leopard, Snake and Crane-form according to his best knowledge and intentions. Nevertheless he created a completely other style than the original had been. Later on the style was completely revised by its most famous practitioner, Wong Fei Hung. One can imagine how much modern Hung Gar Kuen has in common with the style that was once practised by the rebels in the Shaolin temple.

To get at least a bit of an idea of what the style of the early rebels looked like, I think we would best look toward Chu Gar Kuen and its relatives, such as Lung Ying, Sae Ying Kuen, Bak Mei and Weng Shun Kuen.

Copyright Rien Bul 2005

http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/wengshunkuen

Respect,

[wengshunkuen]

John Schultz replied:

Rien, I think you should also look very closely at
Yong Chun white crane to know what that original
style was like, which is clearly the main style that
Weng Chun/Wing Chun was developed from. The Yong Chun
crane was one of the main styles in the area of the
Fujian Shaolin temple which was in Pu Tian. The form
of this Yong Chun Crane style is very close to that of
Wing Chun and these other revolutionary styles. Many
practitioners who practice white crane claim that it
was taught at Fujian Shaolin. Many arts that are not
even Chinese, such as Japanese styles trace their
roots to Okinawa to masters that claimed to have
studied at Fujian Shaolin, and their styles are clear
descendants of the Yong Chun crane, since they have
many of the forms from that style in Goju and Shorin
styles, etc.

Randel Davis replied:

Howdy Big R, hey I could be big R too, how'd you get that nickname any how. How are things over in the European area? Hey I liked you email on the truth about Shaolin and would like to throw you some of my opinions and idears. Yes I do use slang alot but not for the main draft.

You mentioned about the arts core and aims, what about those of the individual. The teacher and the instructor, the system inheritor and the new student in the corner looking and trying to figure out if this visit gives him an idea of wether this art is right for him/her? We know you have to adjust and be alive and flexabile in a fight as a person well I bet our art if it can teach you to be felxable and virsitile then the art itself must have those qualities as well, or how else would it have survived 100 to a 1000 years. Arts have their foundations of course our WC arts were made to teach fast and effiecent fighting techniques that a farmer or whatever occupationist would have a chance against an armed guard, but is that the end of it? Some arts are mixed with healing and martial arts. Some hide stories in there forms. Some arts like a certian branch of SPM holds keys to religion and philosopy. I feel though that the arts will adapt to their environment, wether it be ancient China or the Modern Day Rocky Mountains. Everyone learns and understands knowledge at a different pace. People over art not art over people. "No matter if the Chinese people like it or not" whoa big bite there sifu. I think the Chinese people have an idea of how there culture constructs history. Legend, Myth and Lore easily mix with the facts in Chinese history, the American Indian idea of history is the same(plus they don't view time as linear). It is our Western mindset that has to be the ones to accept that Marital history might be some BS with some fact not for the Chinese to accept this. Triads, well I was gonna get into some stuff there but better not. But saying that Shaolin martial arts would not exist with out Triads is nutzo! What about villiage arts, family arts, Hakka arts. Sure you know of Chen village that is a huge ground for Tai Chi but what about the Yong Chun Province Pronounced like WC and their White Crane. Lots more Family/village arts exist. You should try to find info on Mun Lo Gan or Beggar/ Gypsie arts of kung fu which influnced the SPM arts, Bai Mei, Dragon, Mok Gar. The Hakka gypise arts had a huge influnce on the southern systems look how the Hakka influenced the Triads as well.
Word attachment to Shaolin. This is a mix between Western "My **** is bigger than yours because it is Shaolin ****" thingy has gotta stop. In China it was easy to say you leanred at Shaolin to get jobs, security, body guard, but nobody ever thinks of grounds keeper, carpenter or cook. Yeah they did that there too. It was also viewed as an institution of knowledge. Most Western kung fu students don't expect to get a lesson in cooking when they go to kung fu class, but uhhhhhhh maybe you should. If martial arts is truly a part of all life then it should be included in class maybe? The Westerners see a good Shaw brother movie and think Shaolin and Wudan that is it, they are the best and train all day and blah blah BS and more BS. What do we know we were'nt there. And hey this article has clearly pointed out we can't trust Chinese history so, whadda we know? Those temples (and by the way there were smaller temple that associated themselves with O-Mei, Shaolin, and Wudan you can find that in Text studies of Buddhist historians) were a swinging door. A master of a village style might come to study some Chi Gung but he might be the man when it comes to throwing theory and applications so a little fair trade and some work around the tempel a month or how ever long it takes and boom you both have some worth while knowledge. Then monks would go back and vist families which were usually big, hey a brother might be a guard at the palace(of course not during the Manchu invasion) the brothers trade some knowledge and that's how these arts spread. And a billion other ways. I think there is to much of an isolationism myth with the monks and a Western midset. 'This guy went in the woods for 80 years and came out a kung fu God' yeah some monks were more hermits, some were out doing rituals for villeages it all depends. Also on what Philosophy was popular at the time in China was the court in favor of Buddhism or Taoism, maybe Legalism, which didn't really happen(legalism being popular that is).
Buddhist or Taoist arts which one is better, who started first and hey what about Muslim arts or so called Tibetian arts??????????? Yes I agree that the Taoist were doing Chi Gung and healing work before Shaolin was invinted, we can look at ideas of Alchemy and Chinese history and some of the awsome things that can be attributed to this sorta work, such as gun poweder. But did that make it better because it was practiced longer. We can guess that the buddhist came up with something at Shaolin worth a poop since alot of southern arts are influnced by both Shaolin and Wudan. And how about when the kung fu was at its best some people say 1000's of years ago, some say 1830's to 1920 the golden age of kung fu in China. Well is the art still evolving or devolving. Are we trying to put on Chinese clothes and walk a Chinese path or are we trying to take something that trancends boundaries and put ourselves into, is it Eastern and Western minds and cultures melding and clashing or is it all these or none of them. I think we have these ideas in our heads that a Shaolin monk is this god that could never get his *** kicked, but we take human qualities away from them. There were thevies in Shaolin and robbers, they were alot like Catholics in the since that is you tried to beomce a better person and devoted your life to buddhist studies they'd take you. Hell Dong Hai Chan the inventor of of Bagua was a robber and an *******. He had to go to Wudan because it was to closest medical facillity and he had just gotten his asskicked for mouthing off to some folks, he paid off his debt by working there. And ohhhhhhhhhh that is another thing those temples charged money for stuff. Yeah 7 bushels of rice sect and all but if pesants came in and wanted an exorcism or wedding you dam right they paid. Churchs wanting money is something that trancends all cultures.
Orthodox Shaolin, I thought that was what WC was called in northern China. Yup.. Hung Gar has changed alot just like the gentleman's article you have on the website says. Lam Sai Wing also changed the art alot after Wong Fei Hung adding alot of Lama system, that's where yah get those longer swooping strikes from.
So now that you have spread the truth about Shaolin now what? Do people stop practicing becasue they know they can't trust Chinese history or because they don't know if the lable Shaolin truly fits the art or them. The arts were blending and growing and changing to the needs of individuals, communities and causes. Mixing philosophy, relgion, culture, history, stories, martial applications, health benifits, psychology, and many more ascpets of life. The arts should still be growing and working and changing in their new environments with its new players. Yes the past and where they came from is super important, but where they are and where they are going is just as important. I'd say if you wanna know if your art holds to the philosophies of Shaolin cross hands with your students then you can see that something survied of Shaolin Wudan and O-Mei because it is people that make up these ideas and mountains and insitutions of knowledge.
Anyway that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Hey Rhine do you guys have good beer where you're from? Randel

Grandmaster Bul replied:

Dear John,

If you have read my history article on the Wudang Weng Shun Kuen website you
know that is what I am saying too. Where modern Hung Gar Kuen is a
combination of Tiger style with (old style) Yong Shun White Crane, Weng Shun
Kuen is a combination of Sae Ying Kuen (Snake Fist) with (Old style)Yong
Shun White Crane. But like other styles, Yong Shun White Crane has evolved
too. The style as we see it today is as much a derative of the Yong Shun
White Crane style as are deratives from the same source that don't call
themselves White Crane, but Chu Gar or Weng Shun Kuen or whatever. TaiJi
Quan is Snake/Crane Kung Fu too. If you see TaiJi Quan performed at its
highest level, its movements are quick and nimble, the stances small (and
even called Yi Ji Kim Yeung Ma!) and it is hardly ditinguishable from Wudang
Weng Shun Kuen anymore. It doesn't matter that much if Wudang was the actual
source, but they are undeniably from that same source where all these 'soft'
styles have come from. That original style was maybe called 'Loose boxing'.
But whatever it was called, it was certainly the source wherefrom modern
White Crane, TaiJi Quan and Weng Shun Kuen have all evolved. The original
style was soft. So should the deratives be. Half hard/half soft is just an
excuse for lost knowledge.

Thanks for your input.

Randell, I'll get back to you a.s.a.p, okay?

Your friend Rien

Meihauquanlaojia replied:

Hi, very interesting Topic.
I study to much secret societies and sects because Meihuaquan is
strectly connected with their history.
Your said is referred to Southern History of Wushu.
I know that Taiping have some contact with Cailifo (Choylifut) and
Kejiaquan (Hakka Kuen), and sure several kind of southern Wushu are
involved on it.
For "Boxer uprising" (Yihequan) is different. This movement tuch
only northern provinces of China (Shandong, Hebei). The style that
start it is Meihuaquan (Plum Blossom Fist) of North.
Wumeihuaquan is a southern style that can are in connection (in
origin) with Meihuaquan.
I see Chinese documents that use Wu with the means 5, not red. Mei
can are Plum but I found also Rose.

"Everything in the current world of the martial arts that calls
itself Chu or Ng refers by means of an onetime consciously carried
out distortion to Wu (red) and to its link with the so called ' red
family "
I search "Wu" in my dictionary. There arent words wu with mean red.
Usually Red is "Hong".

Wengshunkuen replied:

Hello Meihauquanlaojia,

Thank you for your most intersting and informative reply.
About 'Chu' meaning Red I think I should better let the following
excerpt from the book 'Mastering Kung Fu' explain my point, as it
does that better than I ever could.

Respectful regards,
Wengshunkuen

From the book 'Mastering Kung Fu, featuring Shaolin Wing Chun' by
Benny Meng, Garret Gee and Richard Loewenhagen.

Pages 20 to 21: 'Key political and military progenitors of Wing Chun
development'

Among the revolutionaries there were two significant people who
influenced Everlasting/Praise Spring Fist development (...)
The first, Chiu Yun (also known as Chu Ming) was one of the last
surviving members of the royal family. He assumed the role of
Shaolin monk to hide from persecution and foment revolution. Because
of his close association with the Buddhist teachings of the Northern
Shaolin temple, he established the Buddhist sect Hung Mun to
coordinate political activities in the Northern region. This was the
first secret society related to the Shaolin temple. Its importance
lay in the fact that it was the first organization to form a bridge
between Shaolin Buddhist supporters of the Ming dynasty and Ming
military and political revolutionaries.
As the Machu gained control over Northern China, the remnants and
supporters of the Ming retreated South, including Shaolin
revolutionaries. Around 1646, the Southern Shaolin temple
revolutionaries developed the Red Flower Society (Hung Fa Wui) at
the Red Flower Pavillion (Hung Fa Ting) for the purpose of
coordinating their anti-Qing efforts. This highly secret
organization closely aligned with the existing Fut Paai Hung Mun.
The name 'Hung Fa' contains special meanings to the secret
societies. The Chinese pronunciations of 'Magnificent' and 'Red' are
virtually the same. The word 'Hung' was used, again to enhance
confusion of the enemy's spies. Additional cutural innuendoes for
the words 'Magificent', 'Red' and 'Hung' must also be considered in
any study of the secret societies. The name 'Hung (Magnificent)
Mun' was originally chosen for secret societies for two specific
reasons. The first was to commemorate the efforts of Hung Ying, one
of the earliest revolutionaries fighting the Manchu. The second came
from the termsto describe timeframe- Magnificent Martial Year Tme
period of the first Ming Emperor's reign. This emperor's name was
Chu Yun Cheung. His family name 'Chu' is another word for 'Red'. In
the stories of the founding of the Ming dynasty, he wore a red
bandana on his brow. From this historical link, the colour red
became the official colour of the secret societies seeking to
restore the Ming family to the throne of China. Two famous sayings
among secret society members were 'A piece of a red banner in the
hands' and 'wrapped around the head is a hero', meaning that a man
wearing a red bandanna is a hero. Finally, it is important to note
that the final battle fought Chu Yun Cheung in his quest to etablish
the Ming dynasty was won under a brilliant red sunset. For these
reasons, the secret societies chose red as their official colour.
It is also important to understand the use of the word 'Flower' in
the naming of the secret sects surrounding the evolution of
Everlasting/Praise Spring Fist (Weng/Wing Chun Kuen). The
word 'Flower' reflects enlightenment in Chan (Zen) Buddhism.
Additionally the flower points back to the Shaolin roots.
By this point in time, the Shaolin warrior monks of the Southern
Shaolin temple were no longer living a peaceful, isolated existence.
Their temple had become a gathering place for the Ming royal (Chu)
family members in hiding and the best military minds of the Ming
dynasty, all seeking refuge and a base of operations for military
development and revolution. It should be noted that the Chu family
(also spelled Chia, Ju, Choi, Tsoi, Gee, Zu and Jyu) possessed its
own highly developed and tested Kung Fu called Chu Ga. In the
interest of secrecy, the name Tong Long (Praying Mantis) was used to
cover up the origins of the system. Today this style is known
as 'Chu Ga Tong Long'. That knowledge, by association, was now also
present in the Southern Shaolin temple and played a contibuting role
in the developement of the Wing Chun Kung Fu to come.

[Op108wc]

It should be "Hung or Hong" , not "Wu".

Hung = Red

Chu = Red

Hung Hei Koon (Hung Ga Grandmaster) = Chu Hei Koon

Fong Chut-Leung aka Fong Weng-Chun (Fukien Weng Chun "County" White Crane Grandmaster) = Chu Chut-Leung

Chu Ah Nam (Chu Ga Tong Long Grandmaster)


I search "Wu" in my dictionary. There arent words wu with mean red.
Usually Red is "Hong".

[TenTigers]

a couple of errors-Hung was taken from the name Hung Mo-Jue-the first emperor of the Ming Dynasty, whose line was ended by the Chings.
Lam Sai-Wing did not add the long arm movements, as other lineages from Wong Fei-Hung, such as Tang-Fong line uses these strikes as well. Therefore, we can conclude that Wong Fei_hung from his association (or his father's) with Wong Yun-Lum, the Lama/Hop-Ga master added in the long arm strikes.
Also martial arts was long practiced before Siu-Lum, all throughout China. Siu=Lum was a "melting pot" where people fromall walks of life entered. ex military,warriors, scholars, etc.
Too often, when creating our official histories, we try to take credit, and lay claim to everything and anything having to do with Chinese Martial Arts in order to prove the superiority of our style over Brand X. Too many chiefs, not enough braves. Why can't someone ever say,"We also do Martial Arts" rather than "We INVENTED Martial Arts"
-looks like it,smells like it,feels like it, tastes like it. Boy,good thing we didn't step in it! (I know, old joke):bazooka:

[Cang Long]

good article, but I strongly dissagree with the notion that Hung-Ga is a long-range system. Long arm does not mean long range, and the long arm techniques such as the element punches are usually thrown knee to knee.Ten Tigers,
In Wing Chun long arm does equate to long range in your opinion why is this not the case in Hung Ga?