Secret Identity

[Louie]

I have a question about HFY identity

is this a black or white awareness like either you have it or dont

or is it more of a gray area with different shades of understanding?

also If you have found your identity when and or how did you realize this.

[Steve]

I have a question about HFY identity

is this a black or white awareness like either you have it or dont

or is it more of a gray area with different shades of understanding?

This depends on what you're referring to. The Sup Ming Dim (Formula)? A particular exercise? As a whole? Right now, I think that there may be several incarnations of a HFY identity as we all progress.

Regarding the Sup Ming Dim, its black and white for everyone. You either know the formula and express it or you don't. This is the core of the physical layer.

Some have the glimpses in forms of the exercises and forms, such as Jung Sin Jong Sau, Siu Nim Tau, Fau Kiu Kiu Sau.... The formula works for people in these exercises as they can express it at that moment in time.

also If you have found your identity when and or how did you realize this.

I honestly think that it would be hard to judge your "HFY Identity" until you have learned the entire system.

However, don't get caught up in the technique, remember that HFY is a concept based system that offers so much more, so try not to get wrapped up in thinking of a labeled identity. Is more than knowing the Sup Ming Dim and other exercises. What made a Samurai? His sword? His Bow? While the weapons certainly made one identifiable, it was the moral code that made one a Samurai.

Remember that "Yi' is part of the system. "Yi hei" (righteousness) is of the utmost importance in any seeking to live the life of a warrior. The "Fa" (flower) is also in the name, making reference to Chan thought that guides the system, so that will undoubtedly become part of your identity as well as you study the system. I think it likely that a "HFY Identity" comes when you have clear understandings of physical layers, the mental layers and the spiritual layers coalescing.

Most of what makes your identity comes from within, not from any external system of thought or study. External systems of thought/study certainly influence your identity, but many such systems serve to create and mold your identity, not just one. One of those systems may be your current focus, but your past experiences serve to make you who you are now in your present. They shouldn't be forgotten in my opinion, but they should also not be held onto tightly. Remember them, but don't be attached to them.

I thing that GM Gee is the only one with the true HFY identity right now. He is on the mountain top looking down and able to see all of us. He knows what that HFY identity is clearly, it is his focus. For the rest fo us, it comes in glimpses through the clouds as we climb to the top. Some have thicker clouds to go through than and further to climb than others, depending on where you're at in your training.

[Louie]

I guess I should be more specific next time.

I understand that we learn the HFY identity in the formula and in forms.

I was wondering in motion what your body expresses.(san da , sparring, fighting etc.)

( just because you have assembly instructions for a car doesnt mean you can be a good driver.)

to rephrase my question:
Outside of forms in application or combat is having a hfy identity always a have it or dont thing or can you show a partial identity due to your level of training?

Thanks for your insight steve sum interesting points.

[JK Walz]

Originally posted by Louie
to rephrase my question:
Outside of forms in application or combat is having a hfy identity always a have it or dont thing or can you show a partial identity due to your level of training?


Hi Louie!

While sitting here trying to write a response it occured to me that I really don't know how to define a HFY identity.

Can you tell me what you mean by HFY identity? I'll then try to form an opinion based on my own experience.

Thanks,

JK

[Louie]

Hey JK

Umm lets see.
I guess when you express the Sup Ming Dim in your motions not in form but in application or combat.

maybe I just partially answered my own question with that, im sure thats not it completely. what do you think it is? and I would be curious to what your own experiences hav been

[JK Walz]

Originally posted by Louie
I guess when you express the Sup Ming Dim in your motions not in form but in application or combat.

maybe I just partially answered my own question with that, im sure thats not it completely.

To be honest with you I have not been in combat for quite a while! :p But I understand what you are asking- Does HFY identity (or an expression of sup ming dim) "pop out" when needed without any thought or effort?

I think in reality this HFY identity should be with you all the time in all your actions...words...thoughts through out the day. It is simply there too if you are in a combat.

My question would be this- Is HFY identity exclusive to "combat"? Or, can it be expressed at any time and any place?

JK

[Steve]

Is HFY identity exclusive to "combat"? Or, can it be expressed at any time and any place?

I would say that the HFY system can be expressed anywhere in any situation. After all, it's heart is Time, Space and Energy, the common denominator of the universe. It's just a matter of thinking in these terms and applying them to everyday situations. Work, driving, shopping can all become 'HFY' if you apply the T, S, and E, thought to them.

Maybe we should be asking if HFY is a Chan Identity? From there do we then ask if we're making a Chan Identity within ourselves by our studies of HFY? Are we expressing HFY, or Chan in our identities?

I think in combat, the Sup Ming Dim should come out when needed. It is employed spontaneously due to extensive training of the body, creating the body karma needed to express it as needed in a given combat situation. The science is the formula that keeps the system pure from generation to generation, while the art is your own expression of the science. Sifu Meng has said this before and this discussion kind of makes it more relevant to me now than ever. We all have our 'scientific' HFY identity if you will, but we maintain our own individuality as well when using the science.

I agree with JK in that it (the HFY identity) should be with you all the time. The system is philosophical and spiritual as well as physical, so I think that it tends to become part of who you are at any given moment. I find it very interesting that lately Sifu Meng has been describing the nature of the system as working from the inside moving to the outside, from the core to the gates. Our HFY Identities are this way as well I believe. They work from inside us, being expressed to others as needs be, whether the situation be physical, spiritual or, mental. I believe it to be a flowing identity, not fixed to any one area of life.

[Louie]

Originally posted by Steve
[B] work, driving, shopping can all become 'HFY' if you apply the T, S, and E, thought to them.



Haha my triple coupons gave me the proper T.S.E. so I can buy the cereal in the box and not the one in the bag.

ok Im kind of feeling this.
So you think a HFY identity can be a mind set also. thats interesting.

I havent got that far in my training yet but I have been trying to improve my identity during application.

Sometimes I will go through the formula if I am getting stuck on an application then I will apply the concept to it and this usually gives 1 solid rep. ha

does anyone have specific examples of expressing the identity outside of training? im curious 2 know.

[Eric]

I have been thinking about this for a few days as well, and I figured I should share some thoughts on this subject.

Why limit the question to the HFY identity, what about your identity?

As we all grow and develop an identity of ourselves, our personality so to speak, at what point do you finally have the true identity of yourself? I do not believe that this is a clear cut, black and white scenario; i mean do you feel any more yourself today than you did yesterday? Are you more yourself than you were ten years ago? how do you know?


Any identity, any personality takes time to develop. Honestly, many of us, myself included, are still in 1st grade when it comes to HFY, how much of someone's personality is decided by then?

So to finally give you the short answer: My opinion is that it is a gray area while in development, I'll tell you how it's realized once I get there :D

~Eric

[JK Walz]

Louie-

Please forgive me if I am taking this somewhere you did not intend it to go. Please feel free to re-direct it if it strays too far.

So you think a HFY identity can be a mind set also. thats interesting.

I think it is originally a mind-set. I think the "kung fu" as a combat system is simply a physical expression of the Hung Fa Yi identity. The study of combat training is a tool which we use to develop and hone the true HFY identity. I think what happens is that through the detailed and painstaking examination of the reality of combat (by this I mean the physical exercises we do) we train our minds to strip away illusion. We begin to see what is real and what is not. We begin to cut through the BS of what "works" and what doesn't in martial arts. We voluntarily allow ourselves to be subject to an environment that expects and encourages this sort of honesty.

At some point some students (maybe all...I don't know how many) start to think that maybe this kung fu stuff can be applied beyond martial arts. Of course we all hear this from day one but I don't think we really know what it means. Does it mean be more efficient in your physical movements throughout the day (steer with striking point contact on the wheel!)? Does it mean be respectful to others as we are taught in the kwoon? Does it mean be more aware of your surroundings? Does it mean have a cool zenlike kung fu guy demeanor at all times?

What does it mean?

I think it means to begin to use the same sort of "what works and whats doesn't" methodology of the examination of reality and illusion in martial arts and apply it to an examination of YOURSELF. When you begin to do this and begin to ask yourself questions like "who is it that is dragging this corpse around" you begin to develop a kung fu (or Hung Fa Yi) identity.

You start to examine what is real and what is illusion about you. Just like in training the physical movements of wing chun to cut away what is illusion you start to cut away what is illusion about yourself. Maybe at some point (and I am NO WHERE NEAR this point) you begin to realize that the illusion-free physical expression of wing chun is exactly the same and no different than the potential illusion-free expression of your own existence. Once you have this understanding you have what I would call a Hung Fa Yi Identity (AKA- no identity, effortlessness).

This is what I like to think Hung Fa Yi identity is all about.

JK

[JK Walz]

Originally posted by vkays1
...do you feel any more yourself today than you did yesterday? Are you more yourself than you were ten years ago? how do you know?

Any identity, any personality takes time to develop.

I think the development of this "personality" is the same as the saying- "first there was a mountain...then there was no mountain...then there was a mountain."

JK

[Louie]

I liked that JK cut out the BS and keep it real. this is true for everything I guess.


somone else who cannot post at this time game me this explanation.

"in the forms if you do not have sup ming dim it is not HFY wing chun.

In combat or in motion if you do not have sup ming dim it is not HFY wing chun."

pretty cut and dry I liked this one it made a lot of sense and left no room for argument that I could see.

but thats just me, so at this point in time I believe it to be a have it or not situation.

does anyone else have a take on this or would like to add anything?

[Savi]

GM Gee told me once (paraphrasing), that "the identity of HFY is the Centerline." When I think about this, it brings me back to the two idioms:

Three Points One Line, Establish Original Nature

Five Ways Six Gates, Influence the Universe

The first one tells me how to harmonize with my True Nature. At this point (for me), it defines the vertical alignment of my centerline. As a human being, it is natural for me to set my posture as such, but this is only the first step. If I cannot connect my centerline to the immediate universe (through my root and through my arms), it means nothing. So then, the second idiom guides me in this particular focus.

If I cannot uphold to these two idioms to the degree of being in my second nature, I have not harmonized with the teachings of HFY yet.

I do not think that what defines HFY Identity is a subjective discussion when it comes to true nature. On a concept level though, personal interpretation is all there is...

[Eric]

To quote JK:

//-----------------------------------------------------
I think the development of this "personality" is the same as the saying- "first there was a mountain...then there was no mountain...then there was a mountain."

JK
//-----------------------------------------------------

Perhaps i missed the point of the question JK :D

[Savi]

I believe I have just experienced what is referred to as a paradigm shift. In my case, it was a very turbulent one that lasted for 3 solid days. My universe was twisted, bent, broken, shattered, dissipated, and after manifesting itself in the physical form of anxiety attacks - in the blink of an eye it became as clear as a sunset over an ocean of absolute peace. It is a feeling of calmness and certainty.

I have come to understand that to have a HFY identity is to be true to one's nature. Whether it be a family person, a business person, a kung fu person, or any other role one has chosen/identified.

To know yourself is to recognize your true nature, and to harmonize with it and with the universe around you. Choices no longer seem impossible to make, because within that certainty is an awakening.

Hello everyone, I am awake.

[Louie]

So does that mean you were talking in your sleep before? haha J/k
good 4 u

[JK Walz]

Originally posted by hfysavi
[B]I have come to understand that to have a HFY identity is to be true to one's nature. Whether it be a family person, a business person, a kung fu person, or any other role one has chosen/identified.[B]

I think you are correct here.

In the SMK progression of understanding techniques, concepts and, principles- principles is the level of natures. Once you come to understand this and accept it (in whatever part of your life we are talking about) you have learned how to express your true nature.

JK