Most Important Concept

[Steve]

Since we all study S. Shaolin here...

What is the most important concept everyone has learned from their Shaolin studies that they apply to life?

Is there more than one that you use? Once that guides you entirely? Just curious. I will post my thoughts later today.

[Marty-Mar]

I would say for me it is to always have an empty cup. the ability to stay humble and learn is power in itself for me.

[Armin]

Hi!

@ Steve:

Shouldn't all concepts come together in on complete concept? Sort of blending all consepts? Maybe that's the most important concept?!


Armin.

[Steve]

Hi Armin,

Nice point. I do agree that all of the concepts should weave together to make one. Buit sometimes though, I have experienced that there is something 'missing' from life and one or two of the concepts I have learned in my martial arts studies serves to help fill that 'void', kind of guiding me back so to say.

Say for instance, I try to live my life in a very balanced state. I am very open minded, but also very adamant about what I believe and feel. I am ready to learn anything, but I'm also skeptical about individuals who want to teach. Sometimes this skepticism closes me off to the world, and I need to open myself back up, I need to clear the bridges of their clutter to see the rest of the world in order to help my mind open back up. I need to "pour out some of my tea."

I am writing something with some more detail that I intended to post on Saturday, but it has become quite lengthy so far. I will post what I have written so far, and then continue to write and post more as it is completed. The more I write, the more I do see several concepts working together, so I'm beginning to think it is very rare to be guided by just one concept in order to live well.

[Steve]

Here's what I've got so far. More may follow, not sure when though.


Most Important Concept

What is/are the most important concept/s you have learned in your Shaolin studies that applies/apply to your life?
In the course of my martial arts training, I have learned many concepts from different masters and lineages of Shaolin, and had experiences that have helped me to better understand these concepts and how to apply them to my life. I would say that there are too many concepts to pin down as to which is the ‘most important’. Rather, one or two seem to be the ‘most important’ at one particular phase of my life. Maybe two or three, but never just one, the concepts of Shaolin never seem to stand alone, but rather they are mutually and symbiotically supportive of every other concept to a degree.
What are the most important guiding concepts in your current phase of life?
During the last few years I have been through a series of defining experiences, some which may have served to drive me downright insane had it not been for my kung fu being a constant in my life. I consider these last few years to be my ‘crisis years’, for lack of a better description. There were times in which I have been elated, very depressed, in the middle, cheery, gloomy, exhausted and, energetic. Sometimes I would experience a combination of those feelings, which was rather confusing, as they were often very opposite in nature, such as depressed but energetic.
I have always had a sense of being ‘happy-go-lucky’ in my life, which I think has enabled me to remain a very open minded individual, yet I also had some kind of driving focus in mind as well. This driving focus has been different throughout the years, from graduating college, learning a new language or, earning my Black Belt. At the Chi Sim Instructor Training week in 2003, Grandmaster Hoffman gave some very interesting philosophical lectures on the nature of Chi Sim Weng Chun. Many of these hit home with me almost immediately, putting into words some of the knowledge I have gained via experiences in life. Before meeting Grandmaster Hoffman, I was unable to put into words these pieces of knowledge. The most important of these was when he was speaking about the importance of being spacious. He said “Maintain your space but keep your focus,” or something along those lines. His point was that while you must have a focus in life in order to get anywhere, you should not become blinded to the rest of the world, but you should remain aware of it or else you my miss something important. The next biggest lesson from Chi Sim I have learned is the importance of non-attachment.
Grandmaster Hoffman spoke of greed when he illustrated this concept of non-attachment. If we like a certain feeling, say, happiness for example, we may become stuck to it, and this in turn causes feelings of sadness or anger when we aren’t happy all of the time. As Sifu Meng has taught at times, “it is very hard to maintain a level of Weng Kiu perpetually.” With this lesson in non-attachment comes spontaneity. My studies of Hung Fa Yi have served to bring the nature of this concept to light. When I was younger, I viewed spontaneity as ‘doing the unexpected.’ Now, I see that it is so much more, living in the here and now, acting in the moment as is needed. Sometimes, this is doing the unexpected, other times it is doing what is needed, etcetera. It is a many flavored way of life. Spontaneity and Non-attachment go hand in hand. Just because I prefer to use Tan Sau against a punch, I cannot always expect to use it, or I will get hurt, miss opportunities, or, both. My attachment will cause my downfall. To quote some Star Wars.
“Keep your thoughts here and now, Obi-Wan”
“But Master Yoda said I should be mindful of the future.”
“But not at the expense of the moment. Be mindful of the living Force, young Padawan.”
The same goes for the past. We cannot be attached to our past lives, it’s over and done with and we can’t do anything about it. Move on and live life in the now. Maintain focus. Keep aware of the future for direction and focus. Be spacious.

[JamesHFYofAZ]

Viewing this thread, it seems as if one really needed to express self to help find self. This is a good way of learning, by releasing confusion it opens the door to understanding. You have asked that people express their most important concept. My feelings on this are that these concepts that help one, my not apply in the same manner to another. So it could be that finding, understanding, and developing self is the main concept to guide ones life. Further on one may find out that letting go of self is the way to understanding life. Don't really know though!

[Armin]

Hi,

@ Steve:

thanks for sharing these thoughts!!!


@ all:

I feel, that there's one problem: it's not possible for us to learn everything "over night". So, our teacher has to tell us everything bit by bit. We learn different principles for fighting (and even different principles for fighting with legs, hands, on the ground, different weapons, etc.), we learn a "code of conduct", we learn something about Buddhism and Taoism, philosophy, short: there's a whole lot to learn.

But it's not only a matter of learning - it's a matter of understanding. It's like some technique you learn: in the beginning it doesn't look like it should be, so you have tor train it over and over again, until it becomes "naturally" and until it works.

I believe, and that's my experience too, that principles, or better: everything you learn in martial arts, must come together, not only by having knowledge about these things, there must be understanding and, even more important, obtaining the principles in one's own nature. And like a technique, you have to work on it, over and over again - until it's natural to you.

That's why there's IMHO no such thing as a "most important concept" - everything is meant to fit together and the result is bigger than the sum of it's parts.


Armin.

[Cang Long]

What is the most important concept everyone has learned from their Shaolin studies that they apply to life? "Living in the moment" It seems to be the most underrated under untilized misunderstood most often talked about concept that is on everyone's minds. Sounds simple takes years and years to master.

[Armin]

Hi!

@ Cang Long:

"Living in the moment" is no "western concept" - remember the story in the bible with the seven fat years and the seven short years. We are taught and used to plan for the future. Hm, well, living in the moment doesn't mean, that you shouldn't plan for the future, you know. It's hard to express.

Hm, maybe another example will fit - remember the boom with all these "new technologies" at the stock exchange. People didn't take a look at the substance of the companies. Instead they placed a bet on future earnings.

"Living in the moment" would have meant, in that context, to take a look at the past of the companies, than to find out, how the past put the companies into the present and how they perform in the present. A lot of people would have saved a lot of money.


Armin.

[JamesHFYofAZ]

Ah yes, living the moment or living the here and now are two of the same but very important.
Armid- you have a very good point, the past sets the present but the present depicts the future. This would be considered a governing concept of life as well as a philosophy of Tao. This of course does not mean that we should through caution to the wind at lead our lives as if there were no tomorrow, but to cherish what experiences the past has taught us and grow toward a more peaceful existence. As well, all concepts that our masters teach should be carried into our daily lives, otherwise we would not fully be "living the kung fu life".
Gutenaben, ME

[Bryan Feagin]

Steve and all, what great posts! :)

IMHO, every martial artist, or anyone on the Buddhist path of 'going for refuge', should ask themselves these very important questions. The sum total of our Shaolin experience is so much more than mere fighting...

What is/are the most important concept/s you have learned in your Shaolin studies that applies/apply to your life?
I'm with you guys, 'living in the moment', and learning what that really means, has hit home for me in studying Hung Fa Yi. Focusing on here-and-now should take precedence, but you still need a positive direction in life. In the past, I let so much of my life float by because I was too preoccupied with planning for the future. And when I finally got to the future, it never matched my expectations anyway. But it was my expectations that were wrong, and my perceptions about what I thought would happen. There's a Shoalin story that ends with the master telling his overly ambitious student, "With one eye always on the goal, you've got only one eye left to concentrate on the cultivation of your skills. That's why it will take you twice as long to get there." Well, up until 2 years ago, that had been the story of my life.

Through my studies, I've learned a lot about patience, humility, and respect for something greater than myself.

What are the most important guiding concepts in your current phase of life?
Right now, I would have to say that Hung Fa Yi has opened my mind to the idea that 'what you're 100% sure you think is true could still be wrong.' What I mean by that, is that we all hold onto our perceptions, perspectives, and beliefs in life, in fact we tend to cling to them religiously out of fear that we could be mistaken. Coming into Hung Fa Yi, I had a lot of preconceived notions about fighting (that I brought with me from other arts -- Tae Kwon Do and Shaolin Kenpo). Since then, I've had a number of paradigm shifts about what I thought I knew, and that alone has caused me to question other beliefs/opinions/etc.. Not just with MA, but in all aspects of my life. It's a person's Ego that holds onto these things, these attachments. Hung Fa Yi has taught me to be much more open-minded to change, and to stay flexible, to 'empty my cup' in order to evolve and grow.

Thoughts?

[Armin]

Hi,

discussing here is gung fu (hard work)! ;)

Well, I think most of us could tell the same kind of story. We started with a style/system or even a teacher, that made us somehow blind for everything else. In my case, it was the European branch of a special Ving Tsun lineage. There we learned, that Karate-guys do this and that wrong, Thai-Boxers ar stupid enough to do this, other Ving Tsun stylists didn't learn the "true way", and so on.

But it's not about looking at others and comparing to them. I had a very intersting discussion with a real martial arts master and I claimed, that I don's believe, that there's only one 'real way' (in a context of japanese 'Do'). If there was only one real way, than it would mean, that there's only one real way to teach it and therefore ther could be only one 'real martial art'. But there are so many, and a lot of them bring enlightenment to the practician.

So, getting back to topic, there are several ways - and it doesn't make sense to try to follow different ways or even to compare them. You have to concentrate on the way you chose.

The biggest problem, in my eyes, is, that you need a real master to make that point clear.

Well, I was very lucky to meet two real masters, one Soke of Okinawa Kempo and one Hanshi (I don't know exactly his title) of a Karate-like system. But I didn't had to spend years and years of training with them. All it took was ONE single meeting, a whole lot of talking and a little training together. Interestingly, both of them were able to transfer their knowledge into declarations that I knew form my own system.

In the end, we all reach the same goal, but we all take different ways.

And what did I learn from them, apart of the goal of my way? Well, I learned the thing, that I feel is the most important thing: to be oben-minded and to have respect. Respect for other styles/systems, other human-beings, but even for animals, plants and the this thing we call earth.


Armin.

[Cang Long]

This of course does not mean that we should through caution to the wind at lead our lives as if there were no tomorrow, but to cherish what experiences the past has taught us and grow toward a more peaceful existence.
James,
wouldn't living in the moment exstinguish all thoughts of the past or future?

Bryan,
Very good post that seems to be where alot HFY members are at this very moment.

Armin,
The biggest problem, in my eyes, is, that you need a real master to make that point clear. Yes, doesn't appear we could agree on anything more than this. The transmission of hou chyun san sou can only work if what the teacher has to transmit is real.

[JamesHFYofAZ]

T- I would think that it does put the past in its place, but not erase. If one has no past to look upon then can one gain from the past by recalling experiences. I understand it to mean more as, not to dwell in he past or live in the future. Either or could cause chaos/confusion between reality and allusion. The understanding of were one is in existence, knowing what is and what isn't, seeing the truth as it is and not diluting it with justifications. If one sees reality as it is, then one can only exist with in. I say stop and look at a flower and tell me what you see? Is it colors and shape, with an enlightening sent that recharges your lungs, or is it something else, something more, is it the truth? My thoughts on the first is an allusion, the mind is in control of the body and soul, it tells one that it sees a pretty red flower that blossoms with a fragrant that is sweet. On a higher note, it can unlock the secrets of the universe, giving one the knowledge of life, death, universal energies, and a view of reality in its self. However, it is in the eye of the beholder so to speak! Got to go bro so see you later!

[Steve]

wouldn't living in the moment exstinguish all thoughts of the past or future?

I don't think those thoughts of the past or future would be extinguished by living in the moment. Rather, we would be aware of them, but living in the moment. We wouldn't be attached to what happened in the past, or what may happen tomorrow. If we are, we're missing the now, and the now is where we are, so it is what matters the most. Thsi is not to say that we shoudl ignore our past experiences. If we did, who would we be, would we have any identity? Our experiences make us who we are, and we are attached to our identity, but our experiences should not be the sole core of our identity, IMHO. Also, if we ignore the future, we can end up in less than desirable predicaments, so we must be aware of our plans, but not attached to them. The future allows us to set goals to motivate us, but as life has been said to be 'that which happens when we are trying to accomplish our goals', we should not be attached to where we want to go, for the destination may change. Our future goals help to shape us in the present, as do our past experiences, but so does the now, the present moment, or so I think anyways.


I also like what Bryan and Armin mentioned about the beliefs and pre-concieved notions. I think that it was summed up best by Chris Rock in Dogma. "I think you shoudl have an Idea, not a belief. Its harder to change a belief than it is an idea." (or something along those lines).

[Bryan Feagin]

Steve,

On past experiences, I agree that we should not ignore (how could we anyway, really?) but move on from them. Lately, I've been thinking alot about how our entire identity in life can be based solely from past experiences if we allow it, which color (like thick rose-colored glasses) everything we see, feel, think, and do. This is why every single person in the world is different, with no two single individuals agreeing on virtually everything.

So, IMHO, you have life Experiences vs. what is Ideal (Principles)

Here's an example story from my childhood:
A friend of mine from high school name David (who is white) had always been very open-minded and non-racist his whole young adult life. One day in high school, he started dating this white girl, who had previously been dating a black student on the football team. Well, her former boyfriend didn't like this situation, so out of jealousy, he and 3 of his black buddies decided to jump David in the high school parking lot. David walked away with a black eye and bloody nose... and, unbeknownst to me, a newfound hatred toward blacks in general. It ended up 'coloring' everything he thought, felt, and saw in life from that point forward. Now, I didn't find out about his racism until we both roomed together in college. Needless to say, we had some VERY long discussions about it and I think he finally saw the error of his ways.

Now, the problem was, his mind had categorized this traumatic experience as
"I got jumped by a gang of BLACK guys"

instead of

"I got jumped by a gang of guys (who just happened to also be black)"

The individual Experience he had overrid the Ideal (principle of non-racism toward others). If the experience never had happened, David's whole outlook toward blacks would have been completely different. If fact, his whole life would have been completely different.

So IMHO, we have to be aware of our experiences in life, but we cannot let them CREATE us and see life THROUGH them, for they could be totally, and completely, in the wrong, and/or against what is Ideal (i.e., Principles).

Thoughts?

P.S. - Sorry if I went down a social tangent, but I felt this story was relevant to our discussion. http://www.hfy108.com/forums/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&threadid=656#
http://www.hfy108.com/forums/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&threadid=656#

[Armin]

Hi Bryan,

see, that's what I meant. In that case, you were "the teacher", that showed your friend, what his experience really meant. Sure, it would have been much better for your friend, if he could have talked earlier with you.

Isn't it the same as raising a child? It does make experiences (those little wooden sticks make *ouch* when getting lit), but it needs someone to put the expereince into a greater context. As "grown-ups" we should be able to do this by ourselves, but most of us look through the same "glass" or window, as our parents did - it's hard to free yourself from the mental attitude one learned from his parents. Parents should be guiding there kids carefully, but most of them have the same problems. How should they be a model, if they are unsufficient, too?

Well, you see, I have been thinking about this over and over in the last weeks, becaus my wife and I, we decided to have kids. And I face the same problems. How can I become a good father, one that is a real good example for his kids and a friend in one person? Where are my weaknesses, where my strengths? Where will I have to work on myself?

It's hard, to find out your weaknesses, but it's even harder, to work on them. But through my Wing Chun-training I learned, that everything is possible - it's just a question of will.


See you,

Armin.