Why study Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun and Chi Shim Weng Chun?

[sihing]

Just a curiosity question. As a outside observer, not involved in any way with either organization, HFY or Chi Shim, I find that some people on this forum and organization are learning more than one MA at a time, Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun then Chi Shim Weng Chun or visa versa. Why? I have read, quickly I might add, through the Mastering Kung-Fu book, profiling HFY Wing Chun and found it very interesting, and similar to what I teach/learn today(I'm from a TWC heritage with differences, my Sifu learned Wong Shun Leung WC and William Cheung WC, as well as Hung Gar, Woo Dip(butterfly style), Chin-na, Chi-Kung, etc..) and I thought I would just ask this question. Thank You.

James

[duende]

Hey James,

Interesting question. Personally, I only study HFY and not Chi Sim although I do have the utmost respect for the Chi Sim art.

Why do people study both?? I don't think there's any particular reason as both are complete systems that deal with all the ranges of hand to hand combat.

I think the answer is because basically the opportunity is available. And there are those who would like to reap the benefits of having a collection of feathers in their KF cap so to speak.

Also, from point of view of a HFY student it is very intersting to learn how the two systems concepts and martial technology overlap, and where they are different as well.

However, I plan to learn Tai Chi when I'm further along in my HFY training from GM Gee. Although that may change, who knows...

[Chango]

James,
I train both systems. I find that I don't do so out of necessity. Each system is very complete this becomes clear very early in thier teachings. However it would be very hard to ignore either system after I have had exposure to thier interlocking "Chan" core. Both sytems are distinctly different however thier connection cannot be denied. CS and HFY have a very different approach in thier teachings. So having said that there is never a issue with being confused between the two systems.

As I have been blessed with the extreme honor and great responsibility of learning these precisous systems. Both have a rich body of not only combat information but practical self improvement life skills that have been preserved and guarded over the years. I can't help but feel overwhelmed with gratitude and admiration for my Sifu and both systems Grand masters and kung fu families.

As a child I was often taught to show respect for knowlege and wisdom. Over the years I have had priceless opertunities to meet and train with various Masters and grand masters. I strongly feel that if they offer me knowlege and wisdom that has been preserved much beyond my years. I should show respect for that knowlege and wisdom by learning it as deep as I'm capable of learning.

I personally feel that as a martial artist no matter what system you train it is very important that one keeps an open mind and realize that we are all are interested in finding "the truth" in what we do. By that same connection we should support each others learning. Having said this I can honestly say that I have my strong Shaolin identity but I see no conflict in sharing and discussing expereinces with others as we are all brothers with varing degrees of connection.

Chango

[Bryan Feagin]

Hi James, welcome to the Hung Fa Yi board!

You have a great question, and both Chango and duende have eluded to reasons that I think most practitioners at the VTMuseum feel.

My view is, as students of both arts, we have this fantastic and unique opportunity to look back through time to piece together the origins of Weng/Wing Chun at its roots --- the Southern Shaolin Temple. Much like modern day astronomers and cosmologists can 'look back through time' at the utmost distant galaxies to see the true beginnings (true nature?) of the Universe itself. Have you ever asked yourself, wouldn't have been great to personally witness the 'birth' of Weng/Wing Chun inside the temple during the mid -1600's, and to have been part of the evolutionary process? Or even just had been a 'fly on the wall'? What were those great masters and minds thinking, feeling, and experiencing to come out with such amazing knowledge about hand-to-hand combat and Chan? These two arts/sciences can, IMHO, tell us what they had learned during that era....

As Weng/Wing Chun splintered and went the way of the four winds, it fragmented. With so many personal lineages out there, we're left with only the pieces. Can we be sure by looking at the 'present' pieces, that some (or many) didn't go missing and were just filled in by the various practitioners along the way? Through HFY and Chi Sim, we can see much, if not all, of the true 'root' of the tree. They actually share many concepts and principles, and the Chan Buddhist teaching methodology is virtual identical. So far in my experience, cross training both is complimentary and mutually beneficial.

[sihing]

Thanks everyone for your informative responses. I sort of assumed that because you all have the opportunity to learn both systems that most of you would take that opportunity. Since the two systems are somewhat related I would imagine that the curiosity alone would convince some to learn both systems. I myself, when I first started training in Wing Chun wanted to learn all the systems my Sifu was teaching. At that time we had 6hrs a week of Wing Chun training(Mon, Wed, Friday) and the other days were Sil Lum training styles. Since I had joined the Wing Chun group I had to achieve a certain level skill in Wing Chun before I was allowed to start learning the other Sil Lum systems. Before that happened Sifu decided to stop teaching those systems and concentrate on the Wing Chun, do to it's overwhelming effectiveness and logical principals. Besides, by the time I got to that level I was so much into the Wing Chun that didn't want to learn anything else.

I have another question. Have you ever found a conflict between the two systems in terms of concepts, principals or technique. For example, we like to fight on the blindside to take advantage of my two arms against the opponents one, flanking him persay, giving us a postional advantage for a moment. Not all systems adhere to this type of fighting, and if I were to learn something different I that didn't do this I would find it difficult to continue to train in that system. Are HFY and Chi Sim much different in concept and principal or are they similar. From what I understand Chi Sim uses more traditional Shaolin footwork/stances, and does not possess any of the standard Wing Chun forms(SLT, Chum Kil, Bil Gee etc..). Thanks again guys for your input.

James
www.wingchun-canada.com

[Chango]

Hello James,
From what I have experienced these systems do not clash with each other at all. They both address superior position in the realms having a better facing and control of the balance etc... Yes they use differnt terms and in some cases body shapes however they both address Time, space, and energy with every facet of how things are presented, preformed and applied.

I have to admit that I would find this imposible for me to demonstrate with written words. I would have to show this in person to get my point across. I would be doing both systems a great dis-service by attempting to represent with written words what demands first hand experience. I think you would agree that no matter how well TWC can be explained with the written word and spoken word it just does not do it justice. That being said I hope one day you can make it to a workshop or just pay a friendly visit for first hand experiences a healthy discussion like what we are having here. But instead of course in person! I think alot of Weng/Wing chun people loose site of the fact that we are all connect as family in some way be it distant cousin or generations etc.. as with blood family It would be a pleasure to have you visit! :cool:

Chango

[duende]

Hey James,

Conflicts between the two systems? No conflicts... we both follow Tin Yan Dei concepts for range, structural leverage, as well as fighting strategies. These concepts our integral to both of our systems. That is why those two threads of a certain low life were so insulting, and most definitely dirrected at us.

As far as major differences... I'd say that HFY is very strict about adhering to the structure of 5 lines and 6 gates. Chi Sim is more rounded and flowing in it's style so you will find different crouching positions and elongated limb postions etc.. that you'd never find in HFY. I'm told that a good metaphor is that HFY looks like a triangle, where Chi Sim looks like a circle.

As for always taking the blind side. I'd say that both systems definitely do not follow any pre-determined strategy such as this.

For example, in HFY upon engagement... our first priority is to occupy space. This is done through what we call Biu Jong. Upon contact, we then follow the rules of Yi Sau Daai Guek/Yi Geuk Daai Sau. (Hand follows foot/foot follows hand) The energy we receive from our opponent may allow for a centerline facing (deui ying) or may force us to go into a pursuing/tracing angle of attack (jeui ying) where the opponent is compromised into a long arm/short arm situation.

But we do not go imediately in Jeui Ying because that might not be the most economic use of energy and therefore less efficient.

Fighting for us is completely random in nature and follows the path of the 5 energies. They alone dictate the progression or stages of a fights direction.

Hope that helps.

Alex

[sihing]

Thanks Guys, I've just had a little look at your responses, but I have to go to class for the noon lesson. Yes Chango, I agree with you totally, it is hard to explain things in writing on forums like this, and I agree with you that this is a very healthy disscussion. I would love to someday attend a workshop or seminar, that would be fun. I will come back later to examine the responses closer, maybe more questions will arise...

James

[Savi]

Originally posted by sihing
...we like to fight on the blindside to take advantage of my two arms against the opponents one, flanking him persay, giving us a postional advantage for a moment...

James I just wanted to focus on this particular comment, and share some of my thoughts...

Sihing, is there a specific strategy that governs this "going to the blindside" focus? I'd like to know more about it, or why it is a "preference" that seems embedded in TWC. I say preference because the comment started with "we like to fight..."

From what I know in HFY, having a preference to a given situation is ultimately non-existent. I hope I'm not being too vague, but that's what comes up at the moment.

From what I have learned in the HFY system, any engagement to an attacker that does not immediately challenge the attacker's gravity and center space is an opportunity for that attacker to challenge our center space. HFY Kiu Sau methods teaches extensive bridging methods that identify structurally and "energetically" precise actions/reactions for 180' (front and sides) of facing.

I'll share more, but I don't want to get too deep into it without keeping focus on my initial question!

[sihing]

hfysavi,
Yes there is a specific strategy to accomplish the goal of "fighting on the blindside". Of course with all strategies it will not always come out the way we want it as the opponent may move in a way or counter the strategy before it is set.

The first strategy is to always have the opponents lead foot/knee aligned to your centerline and center of your stance, outside kicking range (this is when the opponent is in a forward/front stance of any type). This way we have equal opportunity to travel to the left or right of the opponent, ending up on the side of them instead of down their centerline. Once a attack is initiated a moving target is harder to hit than a stationary one, so the ability to perceive distance is also vital at this point. Once the movement has started one has to have their feet positioned correctly in relation to the opponent, strategy #2. In a X-Arm stance(e.g. both of us have a right hand/foot lead) the lead foot will be on the inside of the opponent, close to his foot trapping it and making it harder for a retreat. In a parallel stance (e.g. I'm right lead hand/foot, he is left hand/foot lead) my lead foot would be on the outside of his lead foot, and similar to the close position mentioned above. This way two arms can always be used to attack your opponent against their one and superior positions will be attained by yourself. Controlling the elbow and contact reflexes obtained through chi-sao are also quite useful in this stage of a fight (exchange stage).

The above is a preference but not a requirement, and will come out naturally when the opening for it is there. I prefer ultimately to lead my opponent to the ground with a sweep or chin-na and attack them from there with strikes or holds.


James

[JamesHFYofAZ]

Wow, this sounds a lot like the yip man that i use to train. What you called the blind side was refured to as flanking. Fun time!

[sihing]

Are there any concepts similar to the TWC Blindside theory in HFY Wing Chun?

James

[Cang Long]

Sihing,
Have you read the HFY book MKF? In it there is an explaination of the concepts of Meui ying da ying and Yau ying da ying which in practice has one train the kiu sau, gan, bong sau, leung yi ma and other factors that initiate stategies and tactics upon contact either from a "blindside" or visible facing of any attack.

[Cang Long]

Why study Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun and Chi Shim Weng Chun? Both CS and HFY are based on the 3 treasures of shaolin and therefore are complete. When you understand and can execute the concepts and principles of these systems you will have the knowledge of all 4 ranges of combat but beyond that studying the system is the best way to understand its history and the history of Shaolin Wing Chun kung Fu which connect both Chi Sim and Hung Fa Yi. If you want to know how you need to study Chi Sim and Hung Fa Yi for a complete and definitive answer there is no other way to this answer that I can see.

[sihing]

Cang Long,
I have read the book MKF, as one of the students had a copy but I was only able to go over it once, and there is allot of information in that book, so I will have to pick one up for myself and study it more thoroughly. I found many similarities between HFY and the Wing Chun I practice but it could all be surface similarities and that's it, I'm not sure, but I found the information and material in the book very interesting.

Is there any video or clips of HFY in action anywhere? I would love to see some of your art in action as I appreciate all types of WC.

James

[Cang Long]

Sihing,
I have read the book MKF, as one of the students had a copy but I was only able to go over it once, and there is allot of information in that book, so I will have to pick one up for myself and study it more thoroughly. WORD!

There is a video of SNT form 2002 Qigong Magazine Gala Cover Masters DVD (http://store.martialartsmart.net/dvdca107set.html)

[Op108wc]

http://www.hungfakwoon.com/MichealPynum.htm

Commentary - Michael Pynum (San Francisco Kwoon)

“Wondering, awareness, and focus” were the first three words I learned when I stepped into Sifu Garret Gee’s Hung Fa Yi Kwoon. At first, they just seemed like part of another martial art philosophy. Little did I know however, that those three simple words would change my life forever.

I have always been interested in learning martial arts. As a result, I have a background in Taekwondo, Aikido, Yang-style Tai Chi, Muay Thai, Shaolin Kenpo, and Doce Pares Eskrima. In each of those arts, I eventually lost interest or felt that they were lacking in some way personally. For me, martial arts should mean more than just how to punch, kick, grab, throw, or swing a weapon. I believe that martial arts should affect the way you live your life as well. They should help improve your mind, body, and soul.

As I grew older and somewhat wiser, flashy martial arts did not appeal to me anymore. I wanted to find something that was practical and street-effective, yet spiritual. Many people talk about how good martial arts are for your self-esteem, discipline, and coordination. But, I always wondered if they honestly believe and practice what they preach?

I had heard of Wing Chun from books, videos, Internet sites, and friends. It seemed to offer what I was looking for, however, finding a good Wing Chun school took me over five years. Due to all the different schools of Wing Chun found today, I was very selective in seeking out an instructor.

After much research and visiting a few Wing Chun schools I was fortunate enough to find Sifu Gee. At first, I have to admit, I was a little apprehensive about Sifu’s teachings and philosophy. While watching his students perform Siu Lim Tao it looked very different from what I knew about Wing Chun up to that point. However, when Sifu would explain a certain movement or concept, he would explain it in such a way that left no doubt as to why you should follow. Never before has someone been able to explain the why in martial arts to me. Most of my martial arts instructors were able to explain the who, what, where, when, and how of a technique, but not the why. Those who have studied martial arts for an extended period of time may better understand what I am trying to convey. Yet, despite all this, it still took me a few weeks to decide that I wanted to learn Hung Fa Yi. Over and over again, I analyzed what I had seen and what Sifu had told me about the Hung Fa Yi lineage. When I finally decided to learn from Sifu it was probably one of the best decisions I have ever made in my entire life.

To this day, I am very grateful to Sifu Gee for opening up the doors of his school to me. Each class is a learning experience that I can take beyond just martial technique. No longer is a punch just a punch or kick just a kick. And, no longer am I searching for another martial art because I am bored or find Hung Fa Yi lacking in some way. For at last, I have found a martial art that can help develop my mind, body, and soul and for that I am truly grateful. Thank you Sifu!

[Op108wc]

Commentary - Michael Pynum (San Francisco Kwoon)

However, when Sifu would explain a certain movement or concept, he would explain it in such a way that left no doubt as to why you should follow. Never before has someone been able to explain the why in martial arts to me. Most of my martial arts instructors were able to explain the who, what, where, when, and how of a technique, but not the why. Those who have studied martial arts for an extended period of time may better understand what I am trying to convey.


It is most gratifying for me (EI) to observe someone (Michael Pynum) who is discovering the reality of the word:"WHY" in martial arts.

Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Kuen Grandmaster Garrett Gee

Thank you for Sifu’s teachings and philosophy.


El

[sihing]

Interesting posts Op108wc,

Myself and my Sihing and a Sidis were just talking amongst ourselves this evening on the very subject of why we joined Sifu's school and kwoon that we belong to up here in Canada. My Sihing who has been with Sifu Lewadny for 18yrs now said that he didn't even observe the class before he registered for his first lesson in the school. He always had a fascination with the Martial Arts and studied Karate and Judo when he was a young teen, but found that something was lacking in the schools that were teaching those arts. As soon as he entered the School where my Sifu at that time was teaching Sil Lum Styles and hard and soft style Wing Chun he knew that something was different. I can relate to that story also. 16+yrs ago I too entered the same school and was very fascinated and intrigued by what I saw in the classes being taught and by my first conversation with Sifu. Although I had no real Martial Arts experience back then I knew that something was different about this particular Wing Chun School. For me it was back in May of 88' that I had my first exposure to Wing Chun, but due to some previous commitments I couldn't join the school at that time and had to wait until September of that same year to enroll, but in the meantime over the summer months my own personal training started, and my discovery of this great art was beginning. Over the next years Wing Chun became an obsession for me and it was on my mind constantly, but it was not only the learning and training, but the relationship with Sifu and his family and the other students in the school, both Sihings and Sidis that was also very gratifying. I think after one spends any significant amount of time with a single Martial art something changes and it becomes more than a bunch of techniques in how to destroy or injure another human being, its about self discovery, and many many other things that we can talk about for hours and hours. One of my greatest blessings in life so far is my discovery of this great Martial Art we call Wing Chun and my Sifu who has guided me along the way to become a better Martial Artist and a better Human Being too. Thanks Sifu and Sihings, Sidis for all the help and lessons you have taught me too in my Wing Chun Journey...


James

[Op108wc]

Originally posted by sihing I think after one spends any significant amount of time with a single Martial art something changes and it becomes more than a bunch of techniques in how to destroy or injure another human being, its about self discovery, and many many other things that we can talk about for hours and hours. One of my greatest blessings in life so far is my discovery of this great Martial Art we call Wing Chun and my Sifu who has guided me along the way to become a better Martial Artist and a better Human Being too. Thanks Sifu and Sihings, Sidis for all the help and lessons you have taught me too in my Wing Chun Journey...


James

James,

Getting to the true self, and this is what we experienced in martial arts: It's all about self discovery with all the help and lessons our Sifus have taught us.

Who benefits from my Sifu's teachings, even a hardcore spiritual cultivator of the True Buddha School on Tibetan Buddhism? Here is the story of Billy Lau.


El


Commentary - Billy Lau (San Francisco Kwoon)

Hi, my name is Billy Lau. I want to share with the public my experiences as a new member of the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun School. About myself, I am a hardcore spiritual cultivator of the True Buddha School on Tibetan Buddhism for over 10 and half years. I’ve been studying Wing Chun on and off for the last 12 years pre-maturely for short periods of time. 12 years ago, I entered the door studying under Sifu David Lott for a short six month period. Sifu Lott had to leave and relocate to Texas so I stopped for a seven year period of time. I then had the opportunity to learn from Sifu Kenneth Chung for a short 3 month period four years ago. Four years later today, I’m proud to be one of the newest members to join the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun family. I’ve been really fortunate to learn the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Martial Arts System under the teachings of Grandmaster Garrett Gee where I find the purest and most complete Wing Chun system there to exist, incomparable to all of the systems that I’ve learned in the past and I will explain why in detail.

While it’s been only a short 2 months of learning Wing Chun from Grandmaster Garrett Gee, I find that my confidence has increased significantly in identifying my own time, space and energy where I have not ever found while training in other Wing Chun Schools. This is the only Wing Chun system in my experience that traces directly to the Shaolin Temple with many parallel Buddhist teachings in it’s martial arts forms similar to my cultivation experience in Tibetan Buddhism.

In short comparison, I will be summarizing my experiences with each school that I’ve learned in the past:

Under the teachings of Sifu David Lott, I learned many forms and techniques that lacked a true sense of structure. Though at the time, it didn’t appear to be so since I could compensate my poor structure with some muscle and speed training. Six months of training but yet nothing more than many drills of punches and kicks. While facing amateurs, I could really take advantage of them since many what I call “San Sao” techniques were introduced and taught. However, when faced against a more experienced fighter, I could not even stand long enough to apply such techniques. This taught me that I didn’t really want to learn traditional Karate, Taikwondo, or other forms of martial arts, even Kung Fu, that relied on training strictly punching, kicking, forms and San Sao. Why? Because I realized that no-matter how much I train for power and no-matter how much I train for speed, given my size at only standing 5 feet 4 inches, someone will always be stronger and faster than I am.

I then followed Sifu Kenneth Chung for a short 3 month period of time and I focused primarily in these three months on my horse-stance and nothing more than the first form of the “Sew Nim Tao”. Though I was doing a lot of “Chi Sao” (sticky hands), I didn’t feel that I had all of the tools to Chi Sao, with the senior students at the short period of time of learning from Sifu Kenneth Chung. I thank Sifu Kenneth Chung because during these three months, I did however start to build my horse stance and realized how significantly this will become later in my training. However, by comparing the horse stance I learned from Kenneth Chung to my current “Learng Yi Ma” stance, my current stance is far more superior and stable. I started getting frustrated with the fact that our class did fourty five minute Sew Nim Tao’s and the overall style of relaxation to build sensitivity didn’t really work for me. I felt I was not in a Wing Chun class, but rather a Tai Chi fighting class. Maybe I wanted something with more flare into my martial art.

I finally had a chance to learn under the teachings of Sifu Garrett Gee, I finally realized what martial arts means to “ME”. One example of such is it’s teachings of “Sup Jeet Sim Fung”. Most Martial Arts and Kung Fu today focus on training muscle energy and power through “leen kroon”. Leen Kroon is nothing more than training for punches and kicks through repetition and building power through muscle and speed. However, Hung Fa Yi teaches us “Sow Kroon”, it is far more superior then leen kroon which is just ordinary punching and kicking. It is to cultivate our every move to consist of the proper structure and proper energy with our mind. Ordinary Kung Fu and other Wing Chun systems today lack this energy and mind focus. In the short period of time learning with Grandmaster Garrett Gee, I can deeply relate to the teachings of this martial arts with my Tibetan Buddhist cultivations. Just this phase resembles greatly with my 10 years of training “Gow Jeet Fut Fung”, the nine section breathing meditation. This is truly an intelligent and most complete martial arts system where we utilize our mind to control chi energy and a true sense of cultivating our punches with a mind behind our every move.

Coming from a background of experiencing three different schools, I see many differences to the way Sifu Garrett Gee teaches. Many schools offer teachings by their senior students and interactions with the Master are minimal, however, in this school, each student has individualized progressions of teachings from Sifu Gee. Sifu Gee has a way of explaining every little integrate detail on every specific move and answers “WHY” we do it the way it’s taught. Every move in our “Sew Nim Tao” is truly significant and our wooden dummy form teaches us how to leverage our positioning of the proper structure. We not only learn the art of the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun System but we also learn the application, the form, the proper energy and the philosophy behind each teaching. There are also many forms, structures, techniques and drills that are completely missing in other Wing Chun Systems today. Such missing links include “Kew Sao”, “Sup Jeet Sim Fung”, and many others that I still have not yet been taught. But even such, our teachings of “Gong Sao”, “Gor Sao”, “Kew Sao”, “Chi Sao”, “Da Sao” and many others are quite different than the prior schools that I’ve been with. I’ve witnessed many differences in just the “Sew Nim Tao” and “Chum Kew” forms as performed by my si hings compared to other wing chun schools and realized that there are lots of forms and movements missing from outside modified Wing Chun Schools. Though other schools may teach many techniques of San Sao dealing with specific punches and kicks, which offer immediate gratification, however, it is completely useless during the time of application if the proper structure and energy isn’t there to apply it with, especially if another counter move is introduced to go against your San Sao from a more experienced fighter. While in our Hung Fa Yi school, we do not teach you how to go against just a few specific punches and kicks, it teaches us how to deal with “ALL” punches and kicks through “Sow Kroon” and the concepts of “Centerline”, “Five Lines”, and “Six Gates”.

I strongly recommend that if you are serious about learning Kung Fu or any kind of significant martial arts system, that you check out Grandmaster Sifu Garrett Gee’s Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun School. Come check us out and I’ll guarantee you’ll see the difference

Billy Lau

[dragonving]

Hi @all (practising HFY and CS),

I'm new in this forum and very interested in Wing Chun systems, which are not branches from Yip Man.
How deep are you guys related to the both systems?
Do you prefer one and why?

Cu
Dragonving

[Cang Long]

Welcome to the Forum Dragonving,

Both HFY and CS systems originate in the Shaolin Temple and are derived from a philosophy of Ch'an (Zen) Buddhism.

HFY Family Tree (http://home.vtmuseum.org/genealogy/hung_fa_yi/family_tree.php)

Chi Sim Weng Chun Family Tree (http://home.vtmuseum.org/genealogy/chi_sim/family_tree.php)

[Ryanjetli]

It wasn't too long ago that surfing the web i found on a Web site with someone who said he was in the chung family who took direct quotes out of MKF and put them on their website under the subject Facing. then they showed pics of this which i was surprised didn't reflect the concepts at all.

[Op108wc]

Originally posted by Ryanjetli
It wasn't too long ago that surfing the web i found on a Web site with someone who said he was in the chung family who took direct quotes out of MKF and put them on their website under the subject Facing. then they showed pics of this which i was surprised didn't reflect the concepts at all.


Ryan,

Chung family?....any school info or links?


El

[dragonving]

Thanks for your answers

[Cang Long]

Just a curiosity question. As a outside observer, not involved in any way with either organization, HFY or Chi Shim, I find that some people on this forum and organization are learning more than one MA at a time, Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun then Chi Shim Weng Chun or visa versa. Why? sihing,
After hearing and reading about HFY practitioner Alan Chow and his recent participation in a gong sau it sort of got me to review your question in my head even before coming back to this thread. So let me try and answer your question again. First, as students we don't all study HFY and CSWC there are HFY members that do study both and most of them are current instructors. In class what we do in general is compare and contrast HFY methods with other known methods of study to give beginning students or students with previous martial training something to relate their HFY training to. The interesting thing about this for HFY and CSWC is that on the surface they look very different but the principles are the same or similar.
If you have read about Alan Chow then you might find what he had to say interesting as pertaining to the questions you posted on this thread. Alan studied Yip Man WC and Choy Lay Fut but after training with his HFY sihings he found that their skill surpassed that of his own so he wanted to learn HFY. Alan like so many of us feel they identify with HFY in a way they never could with any other martial art form because of how HFY is taught (the method of SMK). In short HFY explains in detail the why of what it is we do when we practice HFY. Although Alan considers himself a beginner this is one of the reason he felt he had nothing to fear from someone who had been training another form of martial arts for over 23 years. So many HFY practitioners with previous training in other forms of martial arts have all said the same thing, before studying HFY they felt they were being shown certain techniques to be performed in certain situations but that HFY is different in that it teaches the practitioner not at the technique level but past it to the principle level of how what and why and so many people have all said understanding the why is the key to them becoming better martial artist.

[Hungman]

Originally posted by Cang Long
So many HFY practitioners with previous training in other forms of martial arts have all said the same thing


Before studying HFYWCK under Sifu Garrett Gee, I used to be a student of Sifu Chris Chan at the mission school.