12th HFY Public Seminar Feedback

[Savi]

Here are the first batch of feedback/responses from the latest HFY seminar in AZ:
Attending this seminar has deepened my appreciation for the Hung Fa Yi system and its honest, scientifically practiced sifus.

All the techniques demonstrated were explained and shown in application so that I could practice them myself efficiently.

I will certainly attend the next seminar, and continue training at this academy, and I greatly appreciate the knowledge passed on this weekend. It was an honor training with everyone who was here this weekend. My appreciation to Grandmaster Gee and Sifu Benny Meng.

Alex Ross
Being a complete neophyte to martial arts with just over a year’s experience training the HFY system, my experience this weekend has been nothing more than mind blowing. Due to the fact that I have no other system to reference it is difficult for me to offer any insight as to how the HFY Bong Laap Kiu Sau compares to any other Bong Laap.

However, touching hands with so many different people and experiencing different energies has enabled me to appreciate the superior qualities and knowledge offered by the HFY teachings. In other words because HFY has given me a conceptual understanding about the reality of time space and energy I feel like I can identify and appreciate where other systems are coming from as I am being exposed to those systems.

On a personal note: this weekend most definitely has brought me closer to understanding my journey on the path of self-realization and has increased my faith in the HFY system as the ultimate in bridging the mind, body, soul connection from a combative perspective. I am indebted eternally for the opportunity to be a part of a complete, true and pure system.

Daniel Duran
Amazing! My background is Toi-Le-Fut Kung Fu and after a few drills it became clear that Hung Fa Yi kung fu is far superior. I have never been exposed to the structure concepts illustrated. This stuff works.

Russ Knight
I really enjoyed having been in this class, learning more details and experience. I feel my footwork is improving as well as my sense of touch. Having the experience of working with a variety of people and the honor of working with Sitaigung Gee has been wonderful and I look forward to working with him again in the future.

I have also enjoyed learning some of the history being Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun. Everything that has been said and taught is fairly new to me but very helpful. I feel that everything in this seminar has been a great experience. Thank you and the bruises feel good too!

Matthew Ross
What I get out of the workshops with Sitaigung Gee are two main things:

1. the techniques, concepts, etc… we are learning turn out the weekend and 4 ½ point theory using Bong Laap Kiu Sau.
2. more body awareness, or “awakening” while working the concepts and techniques.

Basically, for me, understanding the concept is one thing. Being able to apply it with good structures, energy and with awareness of space and time is a much bigger challenge. I feel I grasped the 4 ½ point concept rather well. Applying the theories and concepts was a greatly appreciated challenge.

Also, being able to work with so many different and new partners was a great help in recognizing my flaws and helping me build on my HFY foundation.

An example would be: I may understand, when having wrist grabbed, to expose the half point with a Bong Sau to neutralize the grab. Now, feeling the energies (or lack of) from my partner and reacting with the correct response, technique, energy, etc… was a big challenge after time. I reacted with my body “waking up” and could feel easier if I was in the correct position, when I execute correct technique, and just a better body awareness and flow. I felt my body reacting more easily and without having to stop and think as much.

Of course, this was a small step and I still have so far to go. I look forward to the next seminar with Sitaigung. The concepts learned and the furthering of my HFY skills is invaluable.

Jonathan Sandberg
This workshop on the 4 ½ points of Kiu Sau taught through Bong Laap Kiu Sau was actually the perfect thing for me in this stage of my kung fu growth. I feel like I’ve worked to learn the basics presented in former workshops to learn the basics of structure, body mechanics, and the time space and energy presented there.

Because of this, the material presented I could relate to what I’ve learned and get the concepts presented, although I feel that it will take months of training to have the skills ingrained into my hands.

Sitaigung’s seminars are the most outstanding presentations of martial arts I’ve ever seen. I’m thankful for his skill and wisdom in teaching exactly what’s needed.

David Milner

[Op108wc]

Originally posted by hfysavi
Here are the first batch of feedback/responses from the latest HFY seminar in AZ:
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On a personal note: this weekend most definitely has brought me closer to understanding my journey on the path of self-realization and has increased my faith in the HFY system as the ultimate in bridging the mind, body, soul connection from a combative perspective. I am indebted eternally for the opportunity to be a part of a complete, true and pure system.

Daniel Duran

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I don't believe in Daniel Duran, but I do believe in Grandmaster Garrett Gee.

Truly marvelous...A joy to read and talk about.

El

[BennyMeng]

Hung Fa Yi 12th Public Workshop
September 18-19, 2004
Phoenix, AZ

Friday night consisted of private lessons with HFY Master Club and organizational meetings. The technical discussion primarily focused on the nature and essence of HFY. Another topic touched on by Grand Master Gee that evening was on the nature of the HFY system. Grand Master Gee expressed the idea that HFY is not about faith or belief but about awareness of reality. HFY is a process to develop our higher awareness. This is not to say that faith or belief is wrong but that HFY is not based on only faith or belief.

Background information: This is the 12th Public HFY Workshop. People came from New York, Ohio, Texas, San Francisco, and Phoenix to attend. There were close to 40 people in attendance.

The workshop started at 9:30 on Saturday. One of the main topics of the weekend was ‘Sei Dim Bun Kiu Sau’ (Four Point Half Bridge Arm). This is trained during the Bong Laap layer of the overall HFY Kiu Sau training progression. The other main topic was Heaven, Man and Earth Bong Laap Kiu Sau. The application of Bong Laap Kiu Sau primarily trains grabbing and anti-grabbing where all HFY techniques are to express the concepts and principles of the system.

Over the course of the two-day workshop, participants went through different progressions of Kiu Sau, covering the Sei Dim Bun Concept (Four Points Half):

Fau Kiu Kiu Sau
Faat Sau Kiu Sau
Deui Ying Kiu Sau
Bong Laap Kiu Sau
Kwan Sau Kiu Sau

The Bun Dim (Half Point) is the idea of flowing and neutralizing the opponent’s energy after having made contact and is trained in the Bong Laap Kiu Sau layer. It is considered as a half-point because there is no new point of contact. The flow itself is the neutralizer and as such is not a single point – it is a neutralizing force along an infinite series of points.

Tin Yan Dei Bong Sau refers to the structures that support the Bong Sau. Tin, or Heaven, is the wrist. Yan, or Human, is the Elbow. Dei, or Earth, is the knee.

Also over the course of the weekend, Brad Ryan was accepted as a Disciple under Master Benny Meng. Brad is also now a member of the 10th Generation of the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun family, with the approval of Grand Master Garrett Gee.

Brad has a long history in Wing Chun, finishing the Ip Man system under Sifu Steve Lee Swift. Since that time, his focus, understanding, and skill has been expanded through continued contact with the VTM and Master Benny Meng. He is an out-of-town student that started his training in Rochester, New York before relocating to Texas. He has been involved with the Meng's Martial Arts family for close to 10 years. Currently, he is a Sifu in Houston, TX and is working towards establishing a full-time martial arts school.

Current 10th Generation Disciples
Richard Loewenhagen
Mike Mathews
Jeremy Roadruck
Wayne Schulz
Andy Kalish
Chango Noaks
John Lambert
Stephen Rudnicki
Brad Ryan

[BennyMeng]

Originally posted by Op108wc
I don't believe in Daniel Duran, but I do believe in Grandmaster Garrett Gee.
El
El,

During the Friday Night session, Grand Master Gee spoke about HFY and belief. While we don't rely soley on belief like most organized religions, belief in and of itself is not wrong. At a certain stage, belief is necessary such as when beginners are just starting out and do not have enough understanding to see for themselves. In Shaolin there is an attitude of, "Respect the teacher but don't believe the teacher." This statement expresses the idea that you have to listen to what your teacher teaches you but you cannot accept everything on faith - you must have the experience to back up what you are taught. I'm not saying you should not believe and trust your teacher but you have to recognize what you have been taught and what you can actually do for yourself - your personal kung fu.

For example, this weekend Grand Master Gee's teaching was very systematic and precise which allowed even beginners to appreciate what was covered. This is an introduction on the mental level, Hau Chyun. To develop the experience, the San Sau, you need significantly more time training and experiencing to truly comprehend what was taught. To quote Grand Master Gee, "In this seminar, I give you the taste and beauty of Bong Laap Kiu Sau. The material we covered in two days will take months of training for the body to catch up." Without the actual experience, kung fu is far from reality. Faith alone is not enough. I really appreciate that wisdom and offer a word of advice for everyone: don't talk with your kung fu, you must physically train and earn your kung fu. Given a fighter that has studied fighting and spars every day functioning at the Saan Kiu level, I'd put my money on him over someone with perfect, Weng Kiu understanding and no actual experience in a fight.

HFY is a process, a method that allows us to develop a higher sense of awareness about ourselves and reality. The awareness goes beyond the five sense of the body and ultimately passes the individual ego to the point of oneness. As the Buddhist say, "you are the Buddha, the Buddha is you."

Grand Master Gee mentioned that this is where he is moving, in his personal life, and I intend to follow in his footsteps. One of the examples he gave of higher awareness even within the five sense is seeing with your skin instead of with your eyes.

[William E]

Thank you Savi and Master Meng for taking the time to provide the feedback from this past weekends seminar. Hopefully Savi has just taken a short break from typing and will enter the rest sometime soon.

People are already starting to talk about the upcoming seminar at the Hung Fa Kwoon, SF next spring (March). I know I can't wait.

William E.

[Hungman]

Originally posted by William E
Hopefully Savi has just taken a short break from typing and will enter the rest sometime soon.

Savi,

How long do we have to wait for the rest?

[Cang Long]

People are already starting to talk about the upcoming seminar at the Hung Fa Kwoon, SF next spring (March). I know I can't wait. William you really know how to hurt a guy, I have to wait that long until the next seminar but then I'll have another birthday under my sash and with the allzhimers kickin' in it will be a great workshop I can't remember, I propose a Christmas Family vacation/Workshop at a location to be announced later. :)

[Savi]

I'm sorry guys. Still having non-kung fu related issues. I'll be putting more responses up today.

[Savi]

The topic of this seminar was the “4 ½ Point Concept” focusing on the ½ point through the use of the Bong Laap Kiu Sau progression. Sitaigung Gee explained that the ½ point is very important in HFY Wing Chun and is used to neutralize your opponent’s energy by the use of Flow (Lau). The seminar was structured in such a way as to bring the strudents knowledge of the ½ point Concept using the Saam Mo Kiu progression and Tin Yan Dei concepts.

A comparison was made between the Yip Man Bong Laap exercise/method of training and HFY method. It was interesting to note that the Yip Man method was primarily training techniques, strikes and counters whilst HFY method was to use Bong Laap Kiu Sau progression to train the ½ Point Concept.

Also, it was noted that other branches of Wing Chun do not have the Kiu Sau as used in HFY. HFY Kiu Sau enabling the student to neutralize an opponent using the ½ point before engaging in Chi Sau. I came away from the seminar with an understanding of the ½ point meaning Flow/Neutralize.

Mark Jones
I think the workshop was very good from the perspective of flow. Everything was explained very thoroughly prior to the students attempting to perform each section. There was an excellent cycle between the lecture portions and the application portions. It kept the mind and body from either one becoming too fatigued. This allowed for even more learning to be accomplished in an even shorter period of time.

I believe the importance of the Kiu Sau was expressed very well. This curriculum is the first exposure for everyone to this powerful concept. I think it was a great choice for the subject matter.

The instruction was top notch! The how, where, when, and why was well explained at each juncture.

I would like to see all future workshops maintain this format. As for future subject matter I trust the discretion of Sitaigung, Sigung and Sifu to decide what we need the most work on at that time.

I was also glad to hear about the latest work of the museum. It is a wonderful program and I’m glad to be part of it.

Sincerely,
Richard Orndorff
This being the first high-profile Hung Fa Yi seminar I attended, I came in expecting some ground-shaking revelation that would forever alter my kung fu. Thankfully, Sitaigung Garrett Gee brought exactly what I wanted. The emphasis on the ½ of the 4 ½ points, flowing, provided a fitting complement to what I already know, and the practice done with Bong Laap Kiu Sau shed light on Siu Nim Tau application, something that has somehow eluded my efforts at training for the most part.

Sigung Meng’s talks were likewise enlightening, and I plan to attend the next one for sure. Oh, and the cinnamon rolls were excellent!!! :)

-Johnathan Lee

[Savi]

At this workshop I was introduced to the Sei Buen Dim Kiu Sau; specifically, the ½ Point or Bong Laap Kiu Sau Point. This is unique in contrast to Yip Man in many ways from a body mechanics to Bong Sau structures. The Yip Man Bong Sau wrist is bent. HFY keeps the wrist straight. When we’re shown to do the HFY Bong Sau, it was not just how. The explanation also included why. Another distinction is the clarity with concept focus for the drills. We worked not just techniques, but started with a concept and then explored to validate and physically express.

In future workshops I hope to learn more on the other points with the same logical teaching methods. I am starting to see the flow of the exercise and look forward to tying all of the points together and gain the skill and knowledge to fluently express them.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who made the seminar a success. Thank you Sigung Gee, Sibaak Allen, Sisuk Rick, Alex and William, and for the great hospitality from the Phoenix branch. For the first time when I’ve been to Phoenix, it didn’t just rain; it poured! I think this rarity occurring while we were having the seminar represents the growth of HFY. Since everything needs water to survive, this weekend supply was plentiful.

Mike Matthews
My view on what I’ve seen at this seminar is a very eye-opening experience. Having gone through the Bong Laap training of the Yip Man system, the Bong Laap Kiu Sau training in HFY is much more complete in concept and theory. When I look back on my Yip Man Laap Sau training, it feels like a looping exercise made only to train attributes. While HFY’s Bong Laap provides structure training for the entire body, plus training in the Kiu Sau bridging concept. Also, with the 4 ½ Point Concept, you learn the 1/2, which is learning to flow. So I enjoyed the whole experience very much.

Andrew Lee
Outstanding! Each seminar on Hung Fa Yi continues to deepen my understanding of the concepts. This weekend has been no exception.

The Kiu Sau exercise we learned this weekend encompassed a great level of details in a simplistic approach that helps the student develop his/her skill in a controlled repeatable training environment.

Thanks to Sitaigung, Sigung and Sifu for sharing their guidance, wisdom and knowledge as I travel on my journey to awareness.

Carl Davenport
One of the great values to me this weekend was the ability to work with the different instructors. I was able to grasp concepts because each is able to explain a bit differently.

The ½ point Concept of flow is the key to not getting yourself in a place that you are under the control of an attacker. There is a specific awareness to change the time, space and energy to not be put into a controlled position.

The value of seeing Grandmaster Gee wanting to explain the why of each movement gives an expected legacy to the instructors of not just teaching movement but of background concepts as well.

Elizabeth Menchaca

[Savi]

This is my first two weeks exposed to the Hung Fa Yi Gung Fu. This is my first experience with Shaolin Wing Chun. I have read of a deep moral foundation with the virtues of truth and righteousness expressed in Hung Fa Yi and that the current politics, avarice, and business models of popular Wing Chun virtues are founded on vanity and a cultural epoch that influenced close-mindedness.

The simple structure of the Hung Fa Yi model of Heaven, Man and Earth is the perfect model to disclose righteousness.

The concept of controlling space, time and energy can help one understand the eternal.

Protecting Heaven, returning to Heaven, saving one’s center, being firmly rooted, ascending and descending from having and applying the ½ point makes one eternal. Even if one’s structure is destroyed if you can return to Heaven, you can eternally continue.

George Hopkins
In comparing Yip Man Laap Sau with Hung Fa Yi Bong/Laap Kiu Sau I am finding that Yip Man Laap Sau was an important step of my training, but never really knew why or how. It seemed generally assumed that since Chi Sau was everything to Yip Man Ving Tsun, that it must be simply a link to better centerline Chi Sau. From what I understand in Hung Fa Yi, Bong Laap Kiu Sau has little to do with centerline domination, but move of the tactic training of when to retreat, when to attack and how to bridge.

However, I am not yet advanced enough know what Bong/Laap Kiu Sau builds into, but it is clearly not striking-point Chi Sau. I cannot wait for that mystery to be revealed. Now I also feel that I can truly define Hung Fa Yi as a “stand-up anti-grappling system”, for the keys to anti-grappling truly reside in the secrets of Kiu Sau.

Eric Heitmuller
Sifu Gee’s Workshop on ½ Point Bong Laap Kiu Sau added another great layer of detail and understanding to the kiu sau progression that had been previously covered.

First, it gave a lot of additional physical evidence of how Kiu Sau is used against grappling. This was especially clear in the skill challenge exercises.

Second, it really illustrated the idea of Tin Yan Dei level of understanding, training, and expression. Overall, it was a fine step in an ongoing Saam Mo Kiu process of learning HFY.

Andy Kalish
The Hung Fa Yi Bong Laap Kiu Sau was designed to improve the arm bridging. The Yip Man system is focused on the “Man” Gate and strikes. The Bong Laap Kiu Sau develops the neutralizing ½ point contact. It also develops stepping and the “change-ups” in the Five-Line Theory. The Hung Fa Yi Bong Laap Kiu Sau develops many attributes in its execution. The ½ Point is vital to understand the theory of anti-grappling techniques.

Taylor Goin

[Savi]

During the 12th annual HFY workshop, GM Gee shared with us what the 4 ½ Point Kiu Sau Concept is, and how it directly ties to the Gwan (pole) via the ½ point. Saturday focused on the first 3 modes of Bong Laap Kiu Sau. Throughout the seminar, the overriding key seemed to be on the ½ point concept and what makes it different from the other 4 points, but what the similarity/connection is to Chi Sim.

Sisuk Mike Matthews and I demonstrated Laap Sau/Laap Da from the Ip Man/Moy Yat lineage and then compared the technical aspects of it to the Bong Laap Kiu Sau of HFY. Much of the similarities between the two are only in the fact that there is a “form” of Laap Sau and Bong Sau roll.

This seminar I have noticed in particular that GM Gee shared with us an overwhelming amount of information on the concepts, strategy and philosophy behind the Kiu Sau experience. Time and Energy seemed to be used as a focus to achieve the structural position required by the HFY system standards. It was a very uncanny approach in making that happen! The degree of technical knowledge exposed to those in attendance was tremendous and invaluable to the lesson.

I found this weekend to be a great opportunity to spend time with the kung fu family. Not a moment’s time was wasted, save for only 6.5 hours of sleep between Friday and Sunday for some of us. Late night Chi Sau, MYJ and Chum Kiu training was a REAL treat Saturday night! Thanks to GM Gee for nurturing and educating our body karma. Thanks to Sigung for his time and counsel. Thanks to Sifu for opening door after door for his todai to pass through. Thanks to all the students who attended, and took this opportunity to experience first hand what it is like to learn first hand from GM Gee. The seminar was a huge success!!!!!

Savi

[Hungman]

Originally posted by BennyMeng
Also over the course of the weekend, Brad Ryan was accepted as a Disciple under Master Benny Meng. Brad is also now a member of the 10th Generation of the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun family, with the approval of Grand Master Garrett Gee.

Brad has a long history in Wing Chun, finishing the Ip Man system under Sifu Steve Lee Swift. .

Savi,

Where is Brad Ryan's seminar feedback?

[Hungman]

Originally posted by Op108wc
What helps me, and many of the HFYWCK people I speak with, is finding triggers. Look for the triggers in the 4 and 1/2 points HFY Kiu Sau --time/space/energy--that have these traits in common: (1) They are consistent. (2) They are automatic. (3) They are very effective.


El

El,

The HFY 4 1/2 point Kiu Sao ( Sei Dim Buen Kiu Sao ) is a fine example of truth that many of us can truly define Hung Fa Yi as a “stand-up anti-grappling system”, for the triggers to anti-grappling truly reside in the secrets of Sei Dim Buen Kiu Sau. Really, it's a wonderful statement!

[Savi]

I do not believe I got a review from Sisuk Brad Ryan. All of the papers that were given to me have been transferred here. I'll send him a pm and have him post his response.

[Savi]

Still in WOW!!!

Kiu Sau

This weekend covered an in depth understanding behind the nature of Kiu Sau. We covered the half point of the four and a half Kiu Sau as well as four modes to training this principle. I enjoyed all the experiences, mostly work with GM Gee's students, my sigung and sisuk Mike, not to leave out my sidi/s (thx T). Both technical and presentation of information in reaction skill drills flowed together, making it one of the best seminars I have had the honor to attend. This weekend made me proud to be part of HFY! I send my gratitude to all in participation.

Sincerely, James

[Brad Ryan TX]

Even though I'd been to HFY seminars with Sifu Meng this was my 2nd HFY seminar with Sigung Gee. I was really impressed by his teaching methods. The 1/2 point concept on mode one I found interesting, learning first on how to deal with a gap/lop. Normally what I've seen is going into bong sao, never really addressing the grap itself. This seminar has given me much more answers on anti-grappling/locking.Thru my Yipman experience this knowledge wasn't as apparent. I'm starting to see more on how important the kui sao is in training to be effective at trapping range .In Yipman bon sao you relied on more attributes and the mobility was null to little depending on what family you trained with. I also liked with every exercise /mode you can analyze your time, space and energy, helping you understanding the technical knowledge -with the backing of the concepts. This truely gives you what to focus on at each stage!! I felt truely blessed with so much opportunities to touch Sigung Gee hands. It was truely an honor. You can definitly feel the proper time space and energy! Talking with everyone over the weekend , I think we all agree that the seminars are getting better and better each time. I can't wait for the next one! For me this weekend also meant being excepted as a 10 generation disciple by Sigung under Sifu Meng. They both made it an incredible weekend, making me feel like I'm now part of this awesome family. I would like to formally Thank both of them in having the faith and confidence in me and letting me go thru this journey....
may the family grow..

Brad Ryan