Eight Step

[Ba Bu]

Any Eight Steppers here?

Or is everyone Seven Star and Plum Blossum.
Does anyone know why 6 harmonies mantis and 8 step are so rare? Is it just because they are more secretive?

[Shanghai_kid]

Hi Ba Bu.

We're Seven Star.

I normally hear about Ba Bu and Liu He Mantis just as much as the other families in magazines, on the net or in conversation.

You're in the USA, are there a lot more schools for Mei Hua and 7-Star over there?

Which historical figures or famous masters do you usually look to in your lineage?

[Armin]

Hi!

@ babu:

It would be nice, if you could tell a little about the differences. Please? I have no idea about Praying Mantis and I think it would be interesting to get a little "background"-information.


Thanks!!!

Armin.

[Ba Bu]

Our grandmasters are: JIANG HUALONG, FONG HUANYI, WEI HSIAOTUNG.
Master Jiang Hualong learned with SongZide under lue Xuexiang (of mei hua mantis).

The differences between the mantis styles?
Well, shanghai kid could tell you more about seven star, but here is the main northern style differences.

Plum Blossum (mei hua) is the original style, very fast and powerful.
6 Harmonies (Liu Hue) is more of a mantis style mixed with tai chi, and it is considered an internal style.
8 step (Ba Bu) is more agile and light, with many different hand techniques.
7 star uses lots of pressure points and joint locks.

All mantis is know for its unique handwork (including trapping and 'stealing hands'. and its trapping footwork as well.

[Shanghai_kid]

@Armin

Also, as well as the styles that Ba Bu named, every club or family tends to differ too. There are so many. The only way to go - in all MA these days - is to judge individual teachers.

Praying mantis has also suffered at the hands of post-'49 "Modern Wushu" too. The Sports Wushu Mantis forms are especially flowery and abstract.

In the story of the creation of mantis, it was said to be the 18th of 18 fighting principals that combined the other 17 into one system. In the story.

Ba Bu - 8 step, is a traditional style that is quite big in the USA now, I believe.

@ ba bu - any school info or links?

[Armin]

Hi!

Thanks!


Armin.

[JamesHFYofAZ]

Can anyone describe the different forms that exist in their system? I as interested in how the forms express the system. I was watching a tournament that showed two forms from mantis, one was northern and the other southern. The one that had stepping looked like the more mobile style, the other was shorter looked as if he was well rooted with short striking and little foot movement.
Thx, JamesHFY

[JamesHFYofAZ]

Just found this link that has multiple links to mantis sites! Enjoy!Link Page (http://www.authentickungfu.com/links/index.html)

[Cang Long]

(including trapping and 'stealing hands'. and its trapping footwork as well. stealing hands?

[puja]

Hi,

I'm from Tai Ji Mei Hua Tang Lang.

As Shanghai Kid already said, there are quite a lot ba bu and liu he schools and practitioners. But I think 7* especially the HK Linaege is the most spread substyle. Most 8 Step I know of is located in the US. I think think the Pong Lai folks also do have quite some ba bu in their system.
As to some links you can take a look at my site. There are not as much links as on Steve Cotrells Site (the one James posted) though.

@James: As far as I know southern and nothern mantis are in no way related to each other. They have completely different origins. southern mantis reminds somehow of the wing chun (yong chun) styles. The forms are often without or with only very little footwork. Nothern mantis in contrary has a very mobile and flexible footwork.

Best regards,

Puja

[Savi]

Originally posted by Ba Bu
The differences between the mantis styles?
Well, shanghai kid could tell you more about seven star, but here is the main northern style differences.

Plum Blossum (mei hua) is the original style, very fast and powerful.
6 Harmonies (Liu Hue) is more of a mantis style mixed with tai chi, and it is considered an internal style.
8 step (Ba Bu) is more agile and light, with many different hand techniques.
7 star uses lots of pressure points and joint locks.

All mantis is know for its unique handwork (including trapping and 'stealing hands'. and its trapping footwork as well. I find this quite interesting. Is this also a general (as in public) consensus about the differences? I have no idea, so I'm just asking :).

Are there any differences between the mantis styles in regards to theory and principle? Or are the principles pretty similiar and only vary in technique/attribute focus?

[Cang Long]

Cynikal Mantis
This was an interesting thread you might want to chime in on.
I think we might need to put an apb out on Shanghai _kid right about now he hasn't been seen for a good while. I think he was in the movie kung fu hustle...

[Cynikal Mantis]

Originally posted by Savi
I find this quite interesting. Is this also a general (as in public) consensus about the differences? I have no idea, so I'm just asking :).

Are there any differences between the mantis styles in regards to theory and principle? Or are the principles pretty similiar and only vary in technique/attribute focus?
EXTRACT
Of course there are differences. When we talk particularly about the Southern Praying Mantis, the Hakka Southern mantis looks a lot closer to the Wu Zu Quan (Go Chu Kune) root than the Southern mantis that comes from Chu Gar and Jook Lum. Southern mantis looks like a refined version of the Wu Zu Quan movements. At the same time, the stances, footwork and weighting are different when we compare the Jook Lum to the Chu Gar. Many times it has been said that Fujian Bai He Quan (Fujian White Crane Boxing) and Wu Zu Quan are the origin of the Japanese Karate. It is true that Wu Zu Quan style has exactly the same Sanchin form that the Uechi Ryu and Goju Karate styles (with some differences in the tension, and the Chinese version includes two-man version). But Uechi Ryu has a form called Som Bo Gin (Three Arrow Fist), the most famous southern praying mantis form, and both form have similar movements and also the Uechi Ryu foot movements mimic those of Southern Mantis. In addition most Okinawan and Japanese forms follow the same numerology, such as, San Chin Kata (3 steps), Seipa Kata (18), Sanseiru kata (36) and Pechurin Kata (108). May be these similarities between Karate and Southern Mantis are due to the common origin in the Fujian temple, but may be was Southern Praying Mantis, and not Wu Zu Quan the style that originated the Okinawan Karate...

The relation, or should be better to say the lack of relationship between Northern Mantis and Southern Mantis is similar to the Fujian White Crane and Tibetan White Crane. They seem to have absolutely nothing in common but the name.

[Op108wc]

Hello there
Thus today, we know of three Southern mantis styles with one origin: Chu (Zhu, Chuka) Gar, the original, Chow (Zhao) Gar created by Yi Sui, and Kwong Sai Jook Lum created by Lau Sui's student.


El


Southern mantis looks like a refined version of the Wu Zu Quan movements. At the same time, the stances, footwork and weighting are different when we compare the Jook Lum to the Chu Gar.


More Shaolin history & deadly military fighting style

http://www.hfy108.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=67

[Cang Long]

This is some really fascinating stuff I am enjoying all the different view points and the reading materials. Shows you just how much more there is or can be to any particular martial art system.