Legend Of Bai Mei

[Ba Bu]

My understanding of Bai Mei's story is that he was a shaolin monk. However he betrayed the temple and went to the chinese government, with information on the Shaolin Temple. A highly trained group of martial artists were sent to shaolin to destroy it. Among the Artists was bai mei. His special skill was that noone could physically damage him because of his extensive iron body training. After the temple was destroyed he taught disciples however all generations of white eyebrow kung fu were forced underground because everyone had a bitter attitude towards followers of someone who helped destroy shaolin temple.
Any different stories?

[Cang Long]

Welcome to the board Ba Bu,
yes that is pretty much how I heard the story told. What is your lineage and how are they preserving the art?

[Ba Bu]

Oh i'm not a practicioner (i study mantis). I just like history and love hearing the legends!

[Cang Long]

(i study mantis). Northern or Southern?

[Armin]

Hi!

Interesting link: Wing Chun and Baak Mei (http://www.wingchunbakmei.com/)

Very nice videos!!!


Greetings,

Armin.

[Ba Bu]

Northern 8 step.

[dillonthebunny]

does anyone know what 'Baak' means in Baak Mei?


cheers.. :D

[Armin]

Hi!

@dillonthebunny:

'Baak Mei' means 'White Eyebrow', right. Baak could be 'White' and Mei 'Eyebrow' or vice versa. :p


Armin.

[dillonthebunny]

I thought it was....

hmmm


im just trying to work out the style I used to do (going back to it in 3 weeks, so doing some homework)

its called Baak San Kuen.

and it is partly White Eyebrow, but I dont know what 'San' is


any chance you know what that is too?

cheers.. :D

[Cang Long]

Ving Tsun Museum reference library (http://home.vtmuseum.org/terminology/characters.php?dfn=c&Ssearchfield=Common+Spellings&SsearchFor=San&Ssortfield=Cantonese+Spellings&Sway=ASC&Slimit=20)

Hope this helps.

[dillonthebunny]

lol... it does and it doesnt.. hehehe

but that link will come in very handy of the next few years, so cheers for that!

tho the style is part White Eyebrow and Phoenix Fist, the name doesnt represent what the style is, so I should ask my Sifu what the name means.

very good site tho.. thanks again!

:D :D

[Cang Long]

Glad you enjoyed the site. You may want to soon visit the museum and if so let me know in advance I have friends working there I may be able to get you in fast during peek hours ;)

[dillonthebunny]

I take it that the museum is in America? Im from the UK, so I dont think I will be visiting soon. :(

but thanks for the offer.

unless its online?

[Cang Long]

Yes it is in the States and it is online but to really get a feel of the history and the depth of the actual artifacts you need to visit in person, no hurry you have plenty of time one day maybe your students will surprise you with tickets and a hotel room.:)www.vtmuseum.org (http://www.vtmuseum.org/)

[dillonthebunny]

how great would that be!!

im hoping a trip to China would be on the cards...


but I cant get my hopes up too much.. lol

[Cang Long]

I gots a link for ya check it out (http://aaron.net.au/pak_mei/)

[dillonthebunny]

so... would you agree that Pei Mei from 'KillBill' was based om Pak Mei?

it would seem to make sense?

[Cang Long]

Cynikal Mantis,
Do you want to take a shot at answering this one. I can say I enjoyed the movie.

[Cynikal Mantis]

Bak Mei has been fictionalized in Hong Kong films such as Hung Hsi-Kuan (1977), Shao Lin ying xiong bang (1979), and Hung wen tin san po pai lien chiao (1980). In these movies, Bak Mei was played by Lo Lieh, who also directed the 1980 film. Recently, Bak Mei is better known in the West as "Pai Mei"In Kill Bill. Pai Mei is the the Wade-Giles romanization of his name in Mandarin.

[Cynikal Mantis]

Historical Bak Mei according to the lineage of Grand Master Nam Anh
Bak Mei played an important part in the downfall of Shaolin temples.

Manchu conquered China in 1644. Before then, China had been ruled by the Ming Dynasty, which had been weakened by internal corruption and rebellion. The Manchu dynasty became known as the Qing Dynasty. As part of the Manchu campaign to pacify China, they attacked some Buddhist Shaolin Temples.

The leader of the Shaolin Temple, Hong Mei ("Red Eyebrows") died, leaving his legacy to Chi Thien Su, also known as Jee Sin, one of the five Great Kung Fu Masters. According to some stores another such master, Chu Long Tuyen, the monk who would later become Bak Mei, did not accept this. He believed the Ming had become corrupt and Chi Thien Su would still serve them; Bak Mei would rather serve the foreign Qing Dynasty. Then came the attack against the Shaolin Temple at Quanzhou in Fujian province in 1647. Some sources indicate that this temple was actually in Henan, or that the invading forces recruited help from Tibetan warriors in the attack.

The Five Elders survived, however, and soon Chi Thien Su would found a second Shaolin Temple at Nine Lotus Mountain, also in Fujian Province.

The Five Kung Fu Masters survived the first destruction of the Shaolin Temple by Qing Imperial forces and sought shelter in another temple, Fujian Temple, but the other monks were massacred. After Bak Mei refused to provide his real name for fear of retribution (against his family and students - if they survived), the Abbott of the temple christened the monk "Bak Mei" - White Eyebrow. According to some stories, Bak Mei betrayed the Ming at this point, taking information about their plot against the Manchu to the Manchu Shunzhi Emperor, then returned with information about the Manchu attack plan to the Shaolin. After the temple was destroyed by the Manchu, Bak Mei left the temple to study Taoism.

Bak Mei trained an anti-Imperial attack force but following capture of the force by the Imperials, was forced to teach and lead 50,000 Imperial troops in the second destruction of the Shaolin Temple at Henan to prevent those captured with him from being tortured and killed. There, Bak Mei slew the "invincible" Shaolin leader, Chi Thien Su, in single combat by breaking his neck. He claimed he did this to prevent the massacre of the monks in the temple by the troops who followed him.

The tale of Bak Mei's death comes in many forms - it is often claimed that he was poisoned, or slain (in a grand battle) by other martial artists.

Bak Mei is often portrayed as a traitor, however, it is important to note that Bak Mei's actions are not always consistent with this. Bak Mei's actions were undertaken, even to the destruction of the temple, with the intention of preventing harm to those who had chosen to follow him. It is possible that if Bak Mei had not aided the Imperial forces, his followers would have been tortured to death.


Historical Bak Mei according to the lineage of master Jie Kon Sieuw:-

During the reign of the Qing emperor Kangxi (1662–1722), the warriors of the Xilufan revolt were so feared that the 2 ministers Kangxi ordered to end their attacks fled China rather than face either the mercilessness of the Xilu warriors, which often involved beheading, or the displeasure of the emperor, which often involved beheading.

It was the 128 monks of the southern Shaolin temple who defeated the army of Xilu over 3 months in 1673 without suffering a single casualty. However, by doing so the monks had made enemies of those in the Qing army and Qing court who were embarrassed by how easily the Shaolin monks had succeeded where they had failed. Soon rumors began to spread about the threat posed by a power so great that it defeated the entire Xilu army with a force of only 128 monks. This campaign of innuendo was wasted on Kangxi, who remained grateful to the monks, but the rumors had their intended effect on his successor, the emperor Yongzheng (1722–1735), who ordered the temple's destruction.

In 1723, on the 6th day of the first new moon of the lunar calendar, Qing forces launched a sneak attack on the southern Shaolin temple, which began by bombarding the largely wooden monastery with a relentless deluge of burning arrows. Between the surprise attack, the fire, and the overwhelming number of Qing soldiers, 110 out of the 128 monks were killed that day. The Great Shaolin Purge took 70 days as Qing forces hunted down the 18 survivors. The surviving warrior monks of Shaolin inflicted massive casualties on their Qing pursuers but, in the end, their numbers were too great. Soon only five remained:

The Chan (Zen) master Jee Sin ( Chi Thien Su)
The nun Ng Mui ( Nou Mei)
The Taoist Bak Mei ( Pei Mei)
The Taoist Fung Do-Duk( Phung Dao Duc)
The "unshaved" (lay) Shaolin disciple Miu Hin ( Mieu Hien)

After 2 years of running and hiding from the Qing army these fugitives of the cloth regrouped at Mount Emei in Sichuan Province. As one of the sacred mountains of China, Mount Emei was home to about 70 monasteries and temples where the five clerics could blend in easily.

It was decided that Bak Mei would infiltrate the Qing court as a spy while the others travelled throughout China to establish an alliance of anti-Qing rebels. However, the more Bak Mei learned, the more he realized that his allies' efforts would never be enough to overthrow the Qing, and so he left the rebellion, who took this as a betrayal, forcing Bak Mei on the run from those he was once on the run with. Almost all of the rebels who over the years sought to punish Bak Mei for his withdrawal from the struggle ended up dead at Bak Mei's hands, including Jee Sin and Miu Hin's son Fong Sai-Yuk, whom Bak Mei had known since Fong was a small boy.In other accounts, Fong Sai-Yuk is not Miu Hin's son but his grandson.

[Cang Long]

Thank you for the extracts Cynikal Mantis but I am still wondering what your own personal take on the matter is.

[Cynikal Mantis]

I do think pei mei was based on bak mei. I loved the was they portrayed him and his costume was superb, also it was good that they did not potray him as an evil character unlike most films. I did enjoy the film, 2 was better than 1. I love it in a film when a student gets sent into a remote part of the country to study with a grand master,Quinten T did that pert very well .

[Cang Long]

I do think pei mei was based on bak mei. I loved the was they portrayed him and his costume was superb, also it was good that they did not potray him as an evil character unlike most films. I did enjoy the film, 2 was better than 1. I love it in a film when a student gets sent into a remote part of the country to study with a grand master,Quinten T did that pert very well . That reminds me of the 7 Swords from Mt Heaven, the original 5 were on Mt Heaven training with the Master 24/7 when the other 2 arrived to ask for their help. It made the movie more believable when 1 of them would defeat 15 or so foot soldiers. That movie was excellent.

[Cynikal Mantis]

Originally posted by Cang Long
That reminds me of the 7 Swords from Mt Heaven, the original 5 were on Mt Heaven training with the Master 24/7 when the other 2 arrived to ask for their help. It made the movie more believable when 1 of them would defeat 15 or so foot soldiers. That movie was excellent.

I have not seen this who is it by... oh have you seen drunken master 2????:boxing:

[Cang Long]

http://www.sevenswordsthefilm.com/

Let them tell it better than me.

[Cynikal Mantis]

Wasnt this a remake of Seven Samuri??

[Cang Long]

I have not seen where there is a direct connection between the two but if I had to guess I would say some liberties were taken and more modern twist added.

[Jonathan_AZ]

Originally posted by Cang Long
That reminds me of the 7 Swords from Mt Heaven, the original 5 were on Mt Heaven training with the Master 24/7 when the other 2 arrived to ask for their help. It made the movie more believable when 1 of them would defeat 15 or so foot soldiers. That movie was excellent.

Tony,

Do you own this movie? Or, do you know where I can get this movie?

Jonathan

[LapFuWaiYeng]

Pai Mei in "Kill Bill" was based - very loosely - on Bak Mei. Only because of name recognition and the negative stories and legends of Bak Mei as a bad guy (traitor) with incomparable skills. Beyond that, there is nothing. Certainly the techniques do not follow any real Bak Mei techniques.