2004 Wing Chun Gathering

[Savi]

Introduction
This year’s 2004 Wing Chun Gathering was held at Chapparel Park in Scottsdale, AZ. Several families of Wing Chun were present. Eric, Shawn and I made it to the gathering right at 10am, driving from the Chandler school. Sifu Don Grose and Sifu Phil Bradley were already present along with about six (I think) of their students. We met them at one of the picnic areas under a canopy by the south end of the park. Other arrivals were James Crump, Ryan Jacobsen, Tony Jacobs, Mercedes Jacobs, Louie Duran and his friend: Malcolm Valencia (and his daughter). Sifu John Widener and Sifu John Sterling also arrived with two more of their students (sorry I can’t remember everyone’s name!). Another student named Frank and two more came afterwards as well.

The gathering began around 10:30am with the host, Sifu Grose, speaking about the purpose of these annual Gatherings, which is focused on building friendships within the martial community. It was also considered that the Gathering be open to other martial arts outside of Wing Chun, which I think holds great potential for larger turn outs – but would also require more orchestration between various sifus to build a program/agenda for such an event. Sifu Grose also expressed the idea of holding some type of Charity event through these Gatherings; such as helping abused children. I shared my thoughts that perhaps the children of MengsofAZ could participate with a demonstration team to aide in the event. With something like this, however, it was agreed would happen sometime down the road. I informed Sifu Grose and Sifu Widener that the VTM would be more than open to the idea of helping promote these events, and help support their organizations as well; keeping in mind that the VTM also shares in the cause of building relationships within the martial community.

It was around this time that someone abruptly walked through our group and said that this picnic area is reserved for a certain time, and that we had to leave. He referred us to the main office if we had any questions, pointing out that there are signs posted for their reservation, and walked off. Then he came back and put his cooler right in front of us and proceeded to remind us of what he just said. This is when Sifu Grose and he walked to the office. It turns out that we eventually moved over to the pond just across the way and put three picnic tables together and resumed the seminar… (more to come)

[Savi]

SNT/SLT Demonstrations
Demonstrations commenced with Mercedes and me performing the Moy Yat Ving Tsun Siu Nim Tau form. I have to admit that Mercedes’s timing is quite refined in that she moved exactly when I did, demonstrating how much control she had developed over her body movements and did very well! I provided a brief explanation about the focus of the three sections in SNT; emphasizing the varying usage of space throughout the sections. It turned out that there were not many, if any, Moy Yat lineage practitioners here, so they were intrigued by the similarities in what they had learned from their respective lineages.

Sifu Grose proceeded with a demonstration of his SNT/SLT form and gave a clear and detailed explanation of the focus for it – touching base on hei gung and energetics also. One observation I made about his SNT/SLT is that his motions had very good flow and relaxation. This demonstration showed great focus and control of mind and body. His students noted that no further expansion on his explanation was needed.

Sifu Widener performed his SLT form and expanded on my explanation of further focusing on the use of space, as well as sharing Sifu Grose’s explanation on hei gung. Sifu Widener shared with us some adjustments he had made in his training and provided sound reasons for them. One example was that he does not adduct his knees or turn his feet inward as extreme as he was originally taught, as this seemed more natural for him.

Lastly, Louie and Eric began demonstrating the HFY SNT form with me finishing it. I prefaced to the audience that the movements of the HFY system are guided by a formula (3-D space: height width depth) designed around the human structure, which will never change unless our DNA changes, providing a constant among variables of human combat. After a brief description of the HFY Formula, I performed the SNT and asked if any of my sihingdai had anything to add that I might not have covered. They decided that my explanation needed no further elaboration as well. There was a joke shared by Sifu Grose about teaching students (in public schools) and them having no response when asked a question, and we all had a good laugh.

After a brief discussion of personal observations of similarities and differences, we finished this part of the seminar around 11:45am and stopped for lunch... (more to come)

[Savi]

Lunch Intermission
During the lunch intermission, some attendees took advantage of the time and drilled some Paak Sau/Paak Da exercises for a while. John Widener and another (I couldn’t see exactly who) were drilling a set of Paak Sau which was the “engine” that provided change-ups of Biu Sau against hook punches for example. I noticed that the range between the two partners is near an outside gate engagement for the Paak Sau, and the range was shortened when reacting with the Biu Sau/Da. Footwork was a part of the reactionary drill as well. That was what I could see from across the way. On the other end of the picnic tables Ryan and Louie were drilling Centerline Paak Sau, which is a closer range set in comparison to what Sifu Widener and his partner were practicing. The focus for this drill was to begin with no footwork, intercepting punches at the inside gate (developing a sense of inside position @ high ref) and following up with Biu Sau/Laap Da to the outside gate range, or Tan Jeung depending on their reaction time.

If I remember correctly, it was around this time that Sifu Widener and I were discussing angles of attack and defense using Biu Sau and hook punches to illustrate our discussion. What is known in HFY as attaining Jeui Ying (facing with advantage), is what Sifu Widener referred to as using the Chum Kiu Line. What is known in HFY as Deui Ying (facing/matching) where both people are pretty much face to face, he referred to as the SLT Line. It seemed we were talking about the same thing, just coming from different perspectives. (This apparently was a very common theme throughout the whole Gathering!) We briefly talked about stances, and how it related to addressing left and right side attacks and defenses, still using the Biu Sau/Da against hooks for the example... (more to come)

[Savi]

***I'd like to say that this write up is just from my experience from the Gathering, and cannot contain everyone's interactions... so everyone's input on their experience is most welcomed!!!!!!***

Oh Yea: ... (more to come)

[Savi]

Beginning the Chi Sau session
Sifu Grose came up and we began talking a bit on Chi Sau and its function. I think that he did some Chi Sau with James Crump for a few minutes before he came up to Sifu Widener and me. When he approached, I pointed out that our Chi Sau in HFY is oriented around anti-grappling. Sifu Grose shared in that focus and briefly demonstrated a Chi Na application from the Chi Sau roll. He capitalized on a student’s Bong Sau by rolling it over, isolating the wrist and turning it into a downward arm bar. I added in that in HFY’s Faat Sau Kiu Sau, a slightly similar Chin Na app is applied by locking their wrist (the “similar” part) and using the upper arm against the forearm to take someone down. He also demonstrated how to gain the flank from Chi Sau and took his partner down by sweeping his base leg and pulling him backwards and down to the ground several times. Sifu Grose asked if HFY utilizes take downs, and my response was that when you no longer feel the necessity of Chi Sau, anything goes (saan da).

I shared with them my experience from the SF Trip for the March seminar which covered Kiu Sau and touched on the body mechanics for the first three progressions into Jung Sin Ji Ng Kiu Chi Sau (centerline meridian bridge sticking hands). I generally focused on the purpose behind centerline Chi Sau in that it prevents body grabs. The preface was that someone had to bypass our Kiu Sau, and/or our Chi Sau, before we had to grapple with them. A slight distinction was made between Centerline Chi Sau and Five-Line Chi Sau (forearm bridges and wrist bridges). Shawn and I demonstrated some of the details of the body mechanics of the first two progressions.

I recall a student named Steve asking Shawn to Chi Sau afterwards and from there Sifu Grose suggested that Frank roll with me. Eric had Chi Sau with another person as well… (more to come, maybe tomorrow, getting sleepy… feel free to begin posting!)

[Eric]

I would just like to say thank you to Sifu Grose for bringing this event together! I hope that this type of event will continue to grow and that his vision of a martial community-wide charity drive becomes a reality in the next few months.

As for the chi-sao session, I would like to personally thank Sifu Phil Bradley's (forgive me Sifu Phil if that's not your last name, i had trouble keeping everyone's name straight!) students Steve and James for allowing me to touch hands with them. It was definately a growing experience to learn how other schools/families teach and utilize different parts of their Wing Chun. And to Sifu Phil's students Devon and Amy who were not yet to the point in their Kung Fu to play chi sao, I'm sure you'll become excellent kung fu practitioners by next year's event (so I guess I better keep training!)

It was definately a fun afternoon, I look forward to next year's event and hope that more people from the martial community will come join us next time!

[Azwingchun]

First of all Savi, you have one hell of a memory. You have stated the events almost minute by minute......LOL!!!!!

Secondly, thanks for the HFY group for showing up, this was much appreciated. It is always nice to see the HFY family show up.

I do have to comment on the openness amongst all the people who attended, this is what it's all about! We may not always agree, but the a understanding and friendship from each group is a great start.

I will end here before it gets to mushy....LOL! Thanks again, and see you all around soon. ;)

[Savi]

Sifu Widener, my Sifu calls me the "kung fu sponge"... guess I do remember alot.

I should be finished typing up the rest of the workshop review tonight. Thanks for all your patience, and Sifu Sterling, thanks for putting the link up on your site!

See you shortly...

[Savi]

Finishing the Chi Sau Session
Once the Chi Sau session of the Gathering began, Frank and I exchanged courtesies before we touched hands. Most of the participants watched from the picnic tables, some of them were not at the level to Chi Sau yet in their training but did enjoy watching where they were going to go. Frank and I, Shawn and Steve, and Eric and James (I think) also rolled. Frank and I did Chi Sau for around 10 minutes, and during that time the other four Chi Sau participants traded partners. Frank had told me that it has been a while since he did Chi Sau, and respectfully asked if anyone else would like to come up. We bowed to each other, and he shared with us some of his insightful observations from the engagement. Sifu Phil asked me about the observations and I explained what I (personally) do when exchanging energy with others, pointing back to the HFY Formula.

Sifu Phil Bradley is a great practitioner of Wing Chun. He was very enthusiastic about many of the differences and similarities between the way he and I did Chi Sau. Oftentimes, though, he and I ended up out of the Chi Sau exchange and into some form of a stalemate, but would then reset back into the Chi Sau roll. Sifu Bradley shared with the group how he has learned Chi Sau is to begin with the least amount of energy during the roll and that any alteration in the partner’s energy or structure is the “trigger” to respond from the roll. He and I were demonstrating as he explained, and I allowed my structure to fold (when he got to that point in the discussion) so he could demonstrate how he would respond. As we did Chi Sau, we explained a lot of the things we did to each other and loud enough for the other viewers to hear. Both of us came away with much respect and appreciation for each other’s hospitality and skill. Overall, the exchange was very pleasant and educational.

I believe it was around this time that I went into another explanation with the attendees about the HFY formula, just as Sifu Bradley and I finished Chi Sau. I shared with them my view on the importance of the Yin Line, and how I see that as a parallel to the concept of occupying center. My thoughts were that the idea of covering center space is a reflection of Efficiency; in that knowing the center position of a confined amount of space and being able to occupy it is to be most efficient. From this position, one can address all areas of the confined space equally. Well, from my POV, this idea of “center” can be said about the Yin Line, where this particular “center” is actually one fourth of the shoulder-width dimension; in other words, the center space from the shoulder to the centerline. So the same treatment given to the hands to cover center is also given to the elbow to cover the Yin Line position. It seemed that everyone understood quite well, but I clarified to them that this was how I saw it, and might not be how HFY sees it. Sifu John Widener commented that we all have our own analogies as well, and we had a good laugh!

(I would definitely like to see more input from the others who attended because I know there was so much that happened that I could not cover.)

2:00pm came around and we all decided to thank each other for coming to the gathering and say our good byes. Overall, I think that Sifu Don Grose was very pleased with how the Gathering went, and I’m sure that made everyone else just as satisfied! I look forward with great appreciation to the next gathering-type event – hoping to see familiar faces and a whole bunch of new ones. Thank you Sifu Grose and all who shared in this event!

Respectfully,
-Savi.

[Savi]

Hey! I just read the write up from the Wing Chun Kuen Alliance web site. Very nice! I look forward to the pictures from the Gathering.

Wing Chun Kuen Alliance Update (http://www.wing-chun.us/articles.htm)

Great site, by the way.

[Azwingchun]

Thanks. As for the photos, Sifu John Sterling is getting them ready as we speak......shouldn't be long now.

[Azwingchun]

Photos are up.....http://www.wing-chun.us/photos.htm .

[BennyMeng]

This thread is nothing but good news. Congratulations to another successful friendship exchange!

Also worth promoting is the Wing Chun Alliance. If there is anything the VTM can do to help support this organization, please let me know.

As I've mentioned before, Sifu Grose is one of the genuine Sifu that represents the essence of the Friendship Exchange spirit. Sifus Phil Bradley, John Widener and John Sterling also demonstrated this spirit by their free interaction and support.

The Wing Chun community needs more people and events like this. We will be adding this event to the VTM timeline and helping to promote the next one. Aside from the great experiences you guys had, I'm jealous that you get to wear t-shirts and sit outside in the Sun. Ohio winter is moving in rapidly. Today it's in the 40s and raining, hard.

Unfortunately, I could not be there for the 2004 event but I am hopeful to attend the 2005 event.

Congratulations to the students of Meng's of AZ that attended under Savi's leadership. I heard you guys represented the Hung Fa Yi and Moy Yat systems very well. You guys are a testament to Sifu Loewenhagen's training and guidance.

[Azwingchun]

Thank you for the kind words, and willingness to add this to your VTM timeline. Anything we all as a whole can do to promote this type friendship and gathering will be great!

Also worth promoting is the Wing Chun Alliance. If there is anything the VTM can do to help support this organization, please let me know.

Your willingness to offer this is quite enough and much appreciated, thank you. ;)

It would be great to have you attend this next upcoming event. We hope to see you there.

[pvwingchun]

Sifu Meng

I was alerted to your kind words by John Widener. Thank you very much for your input, kind words and support. Having never met you I would consider it an honor to meet you in the future. I am humbled by the following,
Also worth promoting is the Wing Chun Alliance. If there is anything the VTM can do to help support this organization, please let me know.

Also thank you for your support in the upcoming gathering next year.

Again thank you sir.

Also thank you to all who attended it was a great time and next year lets make it even better.

John Sterling

[RedRebel]

Will there be a Southwestern Gathering this year? I'm in southern California and wouldn't mind making a weekend trip to Arizona.

Regards,

Adam Williss
Master Instructor, Fist of the Red Rebel
Founder, California Wing Chun Association
Publisher, Wing Chun Teahouse Magazine (debuting soon)
Director of PR, World Ving Tsun Athletic Association

[Eric]

http://www.hfy108.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1604

[RedRebel]

Thanks, Eric.