Fa Kuen

[Eric]

Hoping to get a thought or two started about Chi Sim.

In the fa kuen form, what is the focus? 6 +1/2 Principles, Heaven Man and Earth, or something else?

Does the focus change in each section?

And how does this focus change based on the level of the practitioner?

Just hoping to start some chatter!

[Savi]

GM Hoffman and family,

Greetings again! I have a question as well. Here in AZ, it is known to our students that forms based on principles apparently do not have some sort of "concrete/set" sequence of movement; rather, the form "sequence" may change based on the focus of any given application.

One example of this is the first form in HFY, which is called Siu Nim Tau. If one is not focusing on a concept or theory such as "Kiu Sau", the form would not be expressed as such and would seemingly be lacking some movements. On that same note, if one does not know (or has not learned) to express "Kiu Sau" in the form, it would seem that the person who does know of "Kiu Sau" would be adding movements in the form.

Is the Fa Kuen any different or similar? Is there a set standard for teaching Fa Kuen to beginners in terms of "sequence" (movement one, two, three, etc...)? Or can the expression of the Fa Kuen vary depending on your focus (as a beginner student learning it)?

I do remember that when GM Hoffman was here in AZ, the only focus was on the 1/2 Point Concept: Flowing.

[Savi]

Hey Chief Lazy Horse, I caught this from GM Hoffman's website:

Fa Kuen (Flower Fist)
The flower is the symbol of the Sim (Chan/Zen) philosophy of Weng Chun Kuen and Fa Kuen is the special set of the famous Grandmaster Chu Chung Man. This set teaches how to use the entire body for both long and short distance fighting.

Are you asking from a teaching perspective? A learning perspective? An application perspective?

[Eric]

Thanks for the link Savi!

My question is geared more towards the learning aspect, trying to figure out the layers and progression of the form.

[Chango]

If you don't mind I would like to interject a few points about the Fa keun set. my first point is the fa keun set is very natural in it's approach. It is like anything natural the more time you spend with it the deeper your appreciation becomes for it's levels of truth! it is like experiencing an awakening!

The 61/2 principles can be realized while experiencing the form! Yet we can also become awaken to the concept of Heaven, human, and earth. one can also find the 18 kiu sau evident with in the form!

We can also take this to another platform to demonstrate the multidimentional aspect of the teaching of the fa keun set. As it is being experienced one can feel a increase in flexibility, stamina, as well as strength. While at the same time this form will cultivate one's internal energy and health as well. The playing of this set is an excellent form of meditation. This having been said we realize yet again how complete the Shaolin is. It has so much to offer
us.

[Andreas Hoffman]

Dear Fa Kuen practitioners,

in Fa Kuen it is important to know which Kiu you are exercise. In AZ I had limited time so I concentrate on flowing. If you don´t know exact the Kiu you cannot do the movement right and you cannot learn weng chun step by step.

For Combat and Fakuen you need a "flowing platform"and to stay in focus which your formula (Heaven-Man-Earth/18 Kiu/7 body concepts/7 principles etc.).

Greetings,

Sifu Hoffmann

[Eric]

GM Hoffman,

Thank you for the reply! This will help me focus my learning of the form! Chi Sim is such a deep and beautiful art, I want to make sure that I'm getting it right.

However, I am a bit confused by your term of a "flowing platform." Do you mean that flow is the base on which everything else is suppossed to grow, or something else?

[JK Walz]

Originally posted by Andreas Hoffman
...in Fa Kuen it is important to know which Kiu you are exercise. In AZ I had limited time so I concentrate on flowing.


GM Hoffman-

That's really interesing. I take it to mean that you do the form differently if you are focused on a different kiu. Is flow (being the 1/2 of the 6 1/2) always present when doing the form?

Thank you,

JKW

[Steve]

JK,

When GM Hoffman was teaching Fa Kuen at the Chi Sim Instructor WKSHP in Dayton in '03, Flow was a big emphasis, or at least I thought it was. I think that;s what made the form so problematic for me to learn initially. I saw all of this fluid, graceful motion going on and it overloaded my brain. From what I remember, Lau (Flow) is one fo the most important physical aspects of Chi Sim. I am alsway striving to smooth out the flow of my Fa Kuen every time I play it. Just my 2 cents.

[Andreas Hoffman]

Here are 6 and an half questions for the topic:

Is flow always present since you were born ?
Is flow always present when you are in a combat situation ?
Is flow always present when you read my message ?
Is stillness always also present ?
Is behind the stillness stillness and/or flow ?
Which part of you don´t like to flow even you know that everything is changing ?
Hardness and Stiffness is our normal unconscious answer to the flow. What is your solution ?

Greetings,

Sifu Hoffmann

May all mother sentient beings, boundless as the sky, have happiness and the causes of happiness.
May they be liberated from suffering and the causes of suffering.
May they never be separated from the happiness which is free from sorrow.
May they rest in equanimity, free from attachment and aversion

[Chango]

Grand Master Hoffman,
I want to first say thankyou for sharing with us the treasures of the Chi sim system. I also wanted to thank you for taking time to continue to guide our training.

I'm very pleased with the perspective and insite your words have given us. "Flowing platform" in Fa keun and fighting! These words have alot of gravity for me. As I gathered it that as practitioner I want to be sure that flow is reflected in combat as well as in the fa keun. From this we can build our skills and learning by focusing on the other core aspects while not ever losing Lau! (flow)

Wow! This process seems to really explain how our training deeply becomes part of "who we are" as a person as we train more and more!

Chango

[dmilner321]

Thanks GM Hoffman for the Fa Kuen insight.

In practicing Fa Kuen, first I focused on movements.
Next, I focused on flow.
Most recently, we've learned more clearly the applications of each movement, which lead to the 18 kiu more precisely. This has been my recent focus.

Your comments guide us toward seeking a deeper meaning.

Upon reflection, stillness and flow appear to be always present, one behind the other. This bears further investigation and practice.

You mentioned 7 points / body principles as opposed to the 6 1/2 others have mentioned. Is stillness the additional 1/2 point? Paired with flow as yin/yang (like the kiu are expressed in pairs)?

Regards,
Dave Milner

[Savi]

Perhaps stillness could reference the mind, and flowing reference the body... this I perceive as an approach to moving meditation.

Doing vice versa could be more like sitting meditation, where the body is still, but the mind is flowing...

18 kiu sau in Fa Kuen:
Since Sigung Meng's last visit to AZ, I have become more familiar with the 18 kiu sau (9 pairs...tiu-buot, tan-toh, kum-na, etc) and I better understand how to express heaven human earth more clear.

I think that GM Hoffman said it best when he said:
in Fa Kuen it is important to know which Kiu you are exercise. In AZ I had limited time so I concentrate on flowing. If you don´t know exact the Kiu you cannot do the movement right and you cannot learn weng chun step by step.And the seven questions (birth, combat, questions of here and now, change and preference) GM Hoffman asked I think lead to a particular point in that in our natural state of being, both stillness and flow are always there no matter the circumstance.
Is flow always present since you were born ?I say so long as your blood is pumping, yes!
Is flow always present when you are in a combat situation ?Yes, either in mind or body - or in you or your attacker, the flow is there.
Is flow always present when you read my message ?I would say yes, we cannot read without flowing word to word. To read word by word/letter by letter is not flowing.
Is stillness always also present ? Flowing has no meaning without stillness.
Is behind the stillness stillness and/or flow ?They balance each other out.
Which part of you don´t like to flow even you know that everything is changing ?Preference of like and dislike can affect one's ability to balance out the proper kiu to the conditions.
Hardness and Stiffness is our normal unconscious answer to the flow. What is your solution ? The kiu of Dim; pause and collect yourself, change your kiu in order to escape hardness and stiffness.

[Chango]

So by logic and definition this allows one to adapt and harmonize in all situations and aspects! The relationship between our practice and life becomes seamless!

[DavidE]

Here are 6 and an half questions for the topic:

Is flow always present since you were born ?
Is flow always present when you are in a combat situation ?
Is flow always present when you read my message ?
Is stillness always also present ?
Is behind the stillness stillness and/or flow ?
Which part of you don´t like to flow even you know that everything is changing ?
Hardness and Stiffness is our normal unconscious answer to the flow. What is your solution ?

Greetings,

Sifu Hoffmann

[/QUOTE]

Continually being born, each moment simultaneously young and old, fresh and stale, whether during combat or lesiure reading, all motion is born of stillness - The mightiest of stones in a river of change has no name until it is discovered and given one. Transition from unconscious to conscious all one needs is to simply .... Wake up !!! :frog:

-david

[DavidE]

Originally posted by Andreas Hoffman
Here are 6 and an half questions for the topic:

Is flow always present since you were born ?
Is flow always present when you are in a combat situation ?
Is flow always present when you read my message ?
Is stillness always also present ?
Is behind the stillness stillness and/or flow ?
Which part of you don´t like to flow even you know that everything is changing ?
Hardness and Stiffness is our normal unconscious answer to the flow. What is your solution ?

Greetings,

Sifu Hoffmann



Continually being born, each moment simultaneously young and old, fresh and stale, whether during combat or lesiure reading, all motion is born of stillness - The mightiest of stones in an ever changing river has no name until it is discovered and given one. Transition from unconscious to conscious all one needs is to simply .... Wake up !!! :frog:

-david