Which Wing Chun's MORE CLASSICAL Technique?

[O_COISA]

Congratulations to everybody.

Would it like to know the opinion of the more experienced about which would be Wing Chun's more classical TECHNIQUE?[SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]

:)

[Op108wc]

1) Tan Sao

2) Bong Sao

3) Fuk Sao

[Savi]

How do you classify something as "Classical"? What do you mean by classical?

To me, that would be anything still defined and expressed by its original nature, concept/theory and principle. If you just have a body mechanic or the "look" of what was/is, then is it really what you think it is?

[O_COISA]

Originally posted by hfysavi
How do you classify something as "Classical"? What do you mean by classical?

To me, that would be anything still defined and expressed by its original nature, concept/theory and principle. If you just have a body mechanic or the "look" of what was/is, then is it really what you think it is?


I refer me to one or more technical, actions, or something seemed, that through a simple to look, can affirm: "That is Wing Chun". For example, in the event of see an image of a flying kick realized for a man dressy with his "dobo", would automatically relate this image to Tae Kon Do.

Reformulating: Which the movement, the technical, individual image or in double, where do to the simple to look, will automatically know that the image Pertence to WING CHUN's Style?

[tidus-x]

This question is improper for a forum of Wing Chun, you should ask your teacher Fong Chi Wing, because the questions here in the forum are of a high level, and you seem to not know the style and you don´t seem to know at least, how to formulate a pertinent question.

How long do practice Wing Chun, and which is your graduation? If you´re inexperienced as you comes demonstrating, you could acquire books, to get the style´s basic information that seems which you practice, as you was already guided to do.

Elevate the level of your questions.

[Armin]

O_COISA:

There's no such thing as a classical technique. It's the quality or the idea behind the movement you see that makes the difference. A lot of systems use movements, that look like a Bong Sao or a Tan Sao. The difference is, what you do with them. If you block an attack, than it's technique against technique and force against force.

The difference is sometimes hard to see - you got to feel it! HTH.


@tidus-x:

I'm sorry, but before talking to somebody like that, you should remember, that not everyone is a native talking "Englishman". Take a look at his place of residence - Brasilia. Do they speak english over there???


Armin.

[Azwingchun]

Let me first say that all questions here are welcomed, no matter how basic or advanced they may seem. Kinda the idea that there are no stupid questions!

We are all here to learn and sometimes to learn what others are doing, so questioning our own schools won't help. We have to realize that each school and organization has their own training and realities of what Wing Chun is and should be, so a public forum such as this allows us to ask these "stupid questions" of each other without any shame.

So I ask that we all show respect to each other, regardless of what or how something is being asked or explained.

Thanks!

[JimH]

I think the original poster means what would the classic logo-like-snapshot of the system be, he remarks on the typical TKD logo scene.

To me this is the often seen pose with 'lop da’ or whatever hand technique with a simultaneous kick, symbolic of the ‘Three movements at once.’ I’ve seen lots of Wing Chun guys pose like this for the camera…

And of course you can immediately tell it's Wing Chun.

[tidus-x]

The Forum´s intention is to help each other of us with the techniques, applications, to improve our knowledge, now, to identify a practitioner of Wing Chun by the look, citing as an example a kick of a fighter alleging to be practitioner of TKD , now, TKD has only one kick wich is able to be identified, the rest of the kicks are in Shaolin, Karate, Kick Boxing, etc.

When I have doubts, I ask my instructor. This man here said he was of the lineage of Fong Chi Wing. Now he alleges that he´s disciple of Yip Man , but was born in January 16 of 1973, one year after his master's death.

I don´t like lies, he doesn´t know who is his master or from who he is disciple of, IF you train Wing Chun, prove your allegations.
Thanks.

[Jacs]

Dear Tidus-x,
Maybe the guy who created this thread is a Brasilian who can't write in english very well!

Why don't you ask him about what he is trying to say?

I know him and I'm certainly know that he is trying to explain that today, he practice under Ip Man lineage.

For you it's just a lie, but for him is an effort to participate in this foreign forum.

Differents and interesting points of view!

No one needs to know your "Imperial" language. Do you know Portuguese?

===========================
Caro Tidus-x,
De repente o rapaz que criou está discussão seja Brasileiro e não tenha habilidades em escrever um bom inglês.

Por que você não pergunta a ele o que ele está tentando dizer?

Eu o conheço e tenho certeza de que ele está tentando dizer que atualmente está praticando sob a linhagem de Ip Man.

Para você é apenas uma mentira, mas para ele é um esforço em participar deste forum.

Pontos de vista interessantes e diferentes!

Ninguém é obrigado a saber esta sua língua "Imperial". Você sabe o Português?

[Azwingchun]

I see where you are coming from, but to be honest it shouldn't have any affect on his questions. And if he is playing games then this is on him not you. I think way too many times we try to discredit or expect people to prove things to us.....when really we are trying to prove to them in the end. I have tried to get over this myself......as it doesn't make me any better or worse in my Wing Chun. I guess I am trying to say, tolerance is the key here, and unless he is attacking you or someone personally on the forum......it doesn't matter what his claims are....whether truthful or dishonest. ;)

[tidus-x]

Senhor Jaques Menezes,

Vou tentar expressar minha opinião em português se assim o preferir.

O problema não está no português ou inglês, o que se discute aqui são as pertinências das questões envolvidas, bem como ser o praticante de Wing Chun poder renegar, excluir, faltar com a verdade porquanto da genealogia do estilo, respeito á linhagem.

Como o senhor deve muito bem saber o Sistema de Saudação nas artes marciais chinesas, é um título ou posição que segue o sistema familiar, ou seja é tradicional que a pessoa decline a sua família.
A classificação de um nível de estudante não está baseada em sua habilidade ou idade, mas sim na sua primeira escola a que deu origem aos passos da linhagem.

Por exemplo, seu professor é seu pai dentro do sistema. Você devia saudar ele ou ela como "Si-Fu" (pai que ensinou o sistema) a finalidade é demonstrar respeito. Seu irmão mais velho, não importando nível de habilidade ou de idade devem ser tratados como "Si-Hing" , finalidade: mostrar o respeito.
Se você os tratar por estes títulos para mostrar o seu respeito por eles, você terá o reconhecimento de seu lugar dentro da família de sua linhagem.

Você pode ter mais de um Si-Fu se você aprender mais de uma arte. Em cada linhagem de família você terá um Si-Fu.

Vamos citar por exemplo sua própria família, seu pai permanecerá seu pai para o resto de sua vida. Ainda que você chegue a ir morar ou viver com seu avô , você não começará a o chamá-lo (avô) de pai.

De igual forma, ocorre no sistema de título das artes marciais chinesas. Seu Si-Fu é para sempre seu Si-Fu na mesma linha familiar.

Ainda que você vai para seu Si-Gung (avô de ensino) aprender, você deve ainda o tratar como Si-Gung para o mostrar a respeito e para mostrar que você reconhece seu lugar dentro do sistema. Uma exceção é se seu Si-Fu não é mais ativo no mundo marcial, faleceu, ou deixou a família por qualquer razão. Então você pode chamar seu Si-Gung como Si-Fu. É perfeitamente aceitável aprender com membros diferentes do sistema de Kung Fu familiar, seu Si-Gung ou Si-Bak por exemplo. Mas a fim de permanecer respeitoso e para reter propriamente o respeito da linhagem, seu lugar original dentro do sistema não muda.

A única exceção para esta regra seria se seu Si-Fu exclui você de sua escola, cortando você fora da família.

Mas se você deixar seu Si-Fu original por qualquer razão, e vá para outra escola que é dentro da mesma linhagem familiar, você ainda retém seu lugar original dentro da família. Por exemplo, se seu pai exclui você de sua casa e você vai viver com seu tio, você não começaria a chamar seu tio, pai.

Um estudante devia pensar sobre ele mesmo como filial, ramos ou galhos de uma árvore.

O maior galho, ramos ou filial que você está conectado é a de seu Si-Fu.

A filial acima do Si-fu é seu Si-Gung, e assim por diante, até que você alcance o tronco da árvore que representa o fundador do sistema. Se você tenta remover sua filial, seu ramo ou seu galho, pequeno de onde está crescendo e o coloca na árvore em um lugar diferente, parará de crescer. Mas se você deixar isto onde está, crescerá e florescerá, e desenvolva galhos pequenos de seus próprios em decorrência de seus próprios frutos.

Já que o senhor se propôs a defende-lo, gostaria, então, que me tirasse as dúvidas abaixo:
Inicialmente ele traçou a linhagem assim: Yip Man – Ho Kam Ming – Augustine Fong – Fernando Hartung
Depois: Yip Man – Ho Kam Ming – Augustine Fong

Agora somente Yip Man.

Quem é o Si-Fu dele?
Se ele tem Si-Fu, porque tirou o nome da linhagem? Ele foi expulso, ou excluído para que tenha alterado a linhagem?


Mr. Jaques Menezes,

I am going to try to express my opinion in Portuguese if thus prefer it.

The problem isn't in portuguese or English, what it argues here are the involved matters pertinences, as well as to be the practitioner of Wing Chun deny, exclude, lack with the true seeing that of the style genealogy, respect to the lineage.

Now only Yip Man.

Who is his Si-Fu?
If does he have Si-Fu, why did he took his lineage name? Was he going expelled, or excluded so that he have changed his lineage?


In the Chinese martial arts society, the title or ranking system follows the traditional family system. Classification of a students level is not based on their skill or actual age. It is decided by who joins the school first. In other words, when you are born into the family. For example, your teacher (male or female) is your father within the system. You should greet him/her as "Si-Fu" (meaning teaching father) to show respect. Your older brother, regardless of age or skill level, would be addressed as "Si-Hing" to show respect. Just as within your own family, there are those whom call Uncle, Grandfather, Mother, Aunt, Brother, etc; you address them by these titles to show your respect for them and to show you recognize your place within the family. You may have more than one Si-Fu if you have learned, or are learning, more than one art. In each family lineage you will have one Si-Fu.

In your own family, your father will remain your father for the rest of your life. Even if you go to live with your grandfather or great grand father, you wouldn't start calling him father. The same is true in the Chinese martial arts title system. Your Si-Fu is forever your Si-Fu in the same family line. Even if you go to your Si-Gung (teaching grandfather) to learn, you must still address him as Si-Gung to show him respect and to show that you recognize your place within the system. An exception is if your Si-Fu is no longer active in the martial world, has passed away, or has left the family for any reason. Then you may call your Si-Gung as Si-Fu. It is perfectly acceptable to learn from different members of the Gung Fu family system, your Si-Gung or Si-Bak for example. But in order to remain respectful and to retain proper lineage, your original place within the system does not change.

The only exception to this rule would be if your Si-Fu kicks you out of his school, cutting you off from the family and you decide to go to a different martial system or to a different lineage of the same system to learn. In effect being reborn into another family. Then you would have a new Si-Fu. But if you leave your original Si-Fu for whatever reason, and go to another school that is within the same family lineage, you still retain your original place within the family. For example, if your father kicks you out of his house and you go to live with your uncle, you wouldn't start calling your uncle, father.

A student should think of himself as a small branch of a tree. The bigger branch that you're connected to is your Si-Fu. The branch above that is your Si-Gung, and so forth, until you reach the trunk of the tree which represents the founder of the system. If you try to remove your small branch from where it is growing and stick it into the tree in a different place, it will stop growing. But if you leave it where it is, it will grow and flourish, and develop small branches of its own.

Since you proposed to defend him, would you like, then, to take off me the doubts below:
Initially he traced the lineage thus: Yip Man – Ho Kam Ming – Augustine Fong – Fernando Hartung
After: Yip Man – Ho Kam Ming – Augustine Fong

Thanks

[Jacs]

Dear Tidus-x,

You did an unbelievable explanation but please, don't waste your time. :rolleyes:

As you can see in my own website Junco Vermelho (http://www.juncovermelho.com.br) in the "Glossário" section I made a list of "chinese family terms". I really know the meaning of Sifu. I had 3 in the past until I found my real Sifu, Master Benny Meng.

In the matter of fact you are quite offensive in the way to communicate in your posts. You need to be more sensitive to others.

Armin and Azwingchun alert you about that!This question is improper for a forum of Wing Chun, you should ask your teacher Fong Chi Wing, because the questions here in the forum are of a high level, and you seem to not know the style and you don´t seem to know at least, how to formulate a pertinent question.Who you are to say what is improper or not?
This forum is made by "higher level" people, new students and also stupid people. As a good Wing Chun practitioner I think you are, you need to accept all kind of people here and help them.Who is his Si-Fu?
If does he have Si-Fu, why did he took his lineage name? Was he going expelled, or excluded so that he have changed his lineage?
Why don't you ask him before call him a liar?

Please be more polite next time and follow the Kung Fu etiquette!

Regards,

===============================

Caro Tidus-x,
Você deu um explanação inacreditável mas por favor, não perca seu tempo.

Como voc6e pode ver no meu site Junco Vermelho, na sessão glossário, eu coloquei uma lista com termos familiares em chinês. Eu realmente sei o que significa um Sifu. Eu já tive 3 e agora encontrei meu verdadeiro Sifu, o Mestre Benny Meng.

O fato em questão é que você esta sendo um tanto ofensivo na maneiro como se comunica. Você precisa ser mais educado com os outros.

Quem você pensa que é para dizer o que é impróprio ou não para este fórum? Este fórum é composto por pessoas de alto nível, estudantes iniciantes e até mesmo por pessoas estúpidas.

Como um bom praticante de Wing Chun que eu creio que você seja, você deve aceitar todos os tipos de pessoas aqui e ajudá-las.

Por que você não pergunta a ele antes de chamá-lo de mentiroso?

Por favor, seja mais educado na próxima vez e siga a etiqueta Kung Fu!

Atenciosamente,

[tidus-x]

Dear Jaques,

First, my explanation isn't time loss, but yes, directioned to the people to reflect about their acts like in the present case has been done for denying his learning origin, what it saddens very the martial artist.
As "O Coisa"´s friend, once you came in his help as you reminded in your e-mail “ Help the people” the Mr.(you) Could guide him so that he could proceed in the correct way, in order to make him grow spiritually.
I know thousands of sites, inclusive yours, and congratulations for the excellent work.

I am happy for have found your Si-Fu.

My intention isn't to be offensive or ill bred, but yes, like already said that he (O Coisa) demonstrates the practitioner's inherent humility of Kung Fu and respect his lineage.

If the questions must be done to him, verifies that all my questions were to him (O Coisa), you is who decided to answer for him, however they still keep without answers, IF they exist.

I´m not being ill bred, I would only like that he had clarified what occurred, that is to his own well-being, so that he thinks and reflect whether the acts are correct or not.

Cordially, Tidus-X




Caro Jaques,

Primeiro que minha explanação não é perda de tempo, mas sim direcionada as pessoas reflitam sobre seus atos como no caso presente vem sendo feito por renegar a origem do aprendizado, o que entristece muito o artista marcial.
Como amigo do Coisa, uma vez que veio em socorro do “O Coisa” como lembrado em seu e-mail “ Ajudar as pessoas” o Sr. Poderia orienta-lo para que procedesse de maneira correta, a fim de poder fazer com que ele cresça espiritualmente.
Conheço milhares de sites inclusive o seu, parabéns pelo excelente trabalho.

Fico feliz por ter encontrado seu Si-Fu.

Minha intenção não é ser ofensivo ou mal educado, mas sim, como já dito que ele (o coisa) demonstre a humildade inerentes do praticante de Kung Fu e ele respeitar sua linhagem.

Se as questões deveriam ser feitas para ele, verifique que todas as minhas perguntas foram para ele (o Coisa), o Sr. é quem resolveu responder por ele, embora continuem ainda sem respostas, se é que elas existem.

Não estou sendo mal educado, só gostaria que ele esclarecesse o que ocorreu, isso é para o próprio bem estar dele, para que ele pense e reflita se os atos são corretos ou não.

Cordialmente, Tidus-X