5 Flags of Secret Societies

[sauchi]

Hi Armin,

There is nothing wrong with calling names of titles if you choose to or not choose to, but if you do decide to use the naming conventions then a person should know what they are and what they stand for.

As for censorship, no one is telling Marcelo what to say and what not to say that is different.

Sauchi

[Marcelo-RJ]

Hi everyone:


I think it's clear now that I was referring to Allen as Sisouk because he himself told me so (and that's how I used to address to him in our email correspondence). But it's ok if the majority tells me to call him Sibak - unless he himself tells me differently again.

As to the Fukienese Wing Chun, I see now that their GM is in Indonesia, not China as I stated before. Anyway, the instructor in the USA was born and learned his art in Indonesia and was granted permission to teach abroads.

If those kind gentlemen account is alright, one more Southern Shaolin Wing Chun (they also call themselves like this) is now out there to be researched. It's curious that even their YJKYM has "parallel feet" (http://www.shaolinkungfucenter.com/faq.html).

Maybe some of the moderators can invite them to join this fine forum?

Marcelo

[Armin]

Hi Marcelo-RJ!

But it's ok if the majority tells me to call him Sibak - unless he himself tells me differently again.

And if the majority told you to jump from a bridge ... ???


Armin.

[Marcelo-RJ]

Hallo, mein Freund und Brüder!

I don't think titles can hurt or kill as much as jumping from a bridge (and I think we both agree with this, since we come from the same "place" - you, EWTO; me, it's South-American counterpart, OEWTB). I'll show the same respect and gratitude for Allen in spite of the title I address him, and I guess that's what is important to him (maybe it's between the lines in his telling me to call him "Sisouk").

BTW, I've heard that Wing Chun is such a fever in Germany. Is it true? And besides Chi Sim and HFY (you), is there any other non-Yip Man lineage active in your Country? What do you think of those people coming out and claiming secret society links and speaking in a similar language after GM Gee brought HFY to the light?

Mit bruderlisch Grüssen,

Marcelo

[Armin]

Hi Marcelo!

BTW, I've heard that Wing Chun is such a fever in Germany. Is it true?

Yes, you could call it 'fever'. But it's for all martial arts, not Wing Chun only. Sometimes I think, that there are more schools here than in all the rest of the world together.

And besides Chi Sim and HFY (you), is there any other non-Yip Man lineage active in your Country?

Yes, there are several, esp. Pan Nam.

What do you think of those people coming out and claiming secret society links and speaking in a similar language after GM Gee brought HFY to the light?

It doesn't matter to me - the truth stays true, nothing what these people say or do can change that. And 99,9 % of the people over here know exactly who said what first and who 'stole' from someone else.

But to be honest: Why bother when people 'steal' from GM Gee and us? They don't have the correct background and the correct coherence.

BTW: Maybe you can see it like this: People only steal from the best ...


Armin.

[sauchi]

BTW: Maybe you can see it like this: People only steal from the best ...

Armin

Well said

[Marcelo-RJ]

I was just wondering: what if those black flag Fukien-Indonesian guys are legitimate, wouldn't it be worth checking them out as they claim common roots and history with us?

M.

[Savi]

Indeed Marcelo, I think that it would be a great thing to have them come aboard this forum, and to see if they are interested in sharing their kung fu with us!

Just from my point of reference, the world of Wing Chun is slowly opening up to the present era.

[Pak Mei Lion]

Originally Posted by Marcelo-RJ

I was just wondering: what if those black flag Fukien-Indonesian guys are legitimate, wouldn't it be worth checking them out as they claim common roots and history with us?

M.

黑旗会土匪 Black flag bandit
Black flag wing chun??? – from Zhao Yuan

China News Express
Chinese to English translation

Some views on Wing Chun - Refuting the ulterior motive of the believers

(China News Express) and Wing Chun’s “Ip Man” recent film screening is renewing enthusiasm for Chinese culture and history. All kinds of comments and divergent thinking were generated from a native of Shandong Province, Mr. Zhao Yuan, a newspaper contributor, who published a thought-provoking article.
Mr. Zhao stated as follows:

"In watching the movie, "Ip Man" and after his grandson saw on the internet that a Chinese American in the United States claim to teach Wing Chun. Actually it was a lot of nonsense that stated black flag is related to Shaolin Wing Chun. This is unofficial Chinese history and the Martial Arts community does not know, understand or understand the ulterior motive.

I am a native of Shandong Province; my grandparents were killed by black flag bandit rebels. During this time the Japanese had invaded Manchuria and used black flag. Black flag was one of the five flag societies in Shandong Province. The five flags were Horse Thieves, robbers and killers, especially black flag was the most heinous. Black flag, the puppet of the Japanese, were the real traitors. Black flag helped the Japanese kill Chinese people and soldiers; this is all well documented in modern day Chinese history.

Chinese martial arts are very popular abroad, but there are some ill-intentioned liars who dare tamper with history of foreign countries. It is said that the bandit gang of five flag was an underground organization for the anti-Manchurian, but it is the biggest lie! Black Flags is the name of bandits with hearts of black: for many Chinese patriots who were killed by Japanese devils and black flag. Now, to see such lies on the internet, is betrayal to give himself glory, it’s not right that this Chinese bastard in the United States spread nonsense, hypocrisy and pain. His behavior is that every Chinese who died was no different than the Japanese denying the Nanjing Massacre! What is the difference? For me this is the greatest insult in my life to the Chinese people! Is this our Chinese people's ignorance or nightmare ghost? We, Chinese, cannot be numb, stand up and expose traitors! Martial artist defend our dignity! “

关於咏春拳的一些看法－－驳居心叵测之徒　　

（中国新闻快讯）　近日电影叶问与咏春拳的放映令人们对中国文化再起热潮，各种评论纷至，有位山东籍的赵元 先生，报社投稿，发表了一篇令人深思的文章。

　　　赵先生陈述如下：“在看完电影《叶问》后，其儿子在美国网路上看到一位自称教授咏春拳的美国华人，竟 胡言乱语称黑旗会与少林寺咏春拳有关。这实在是对中国历史和武林野史不认识，不了解或别有用心 的鼠辈。

　　　我原籍山东，我祖父母一家全死在黑旗会土匪之乱。当年日本侵略我东三省，，五旗会是山东一带的响马贼 ，五旗会中，尤以黑旗会最令人发指，盖因该会实为汉奸，帮日本人杀害中国民众与军人，这在中国近代史上是有 案可稽的。

中国武术在国外很受欢迎，但是有一些居心不良的骗子在国外竟敢篡改历史，称这帮五旗会土匪为反清复明的地下 组织，实在是最大的谎言。黑旗会的土匪如其名---心很黑：替日本鬼子杀害无数中国同胞。现在，我竟在网上看到这样一位认贼作父的美国华人混蛋在胡言乱语，其 所作所为实在是令每个中国人忍无可忍，这与日本人否认南京大屠杀有何分别？是对我中国人的最大侮辱。这是咱 们中国人的无知，还是恶梦不散？我们中国人不能麻木了，站起来戳穿汉奸嘴脸，捍卫武林尊严！
讀者 赵元

[Pak Mei Lion]

Black Flag Wing Chun Training with Master Kenneth Lin*
Hek Ki Boen Eng Chun with Suhu Kenneth Lin*
*Current leader of the Hek Ki Boen Lineage

QUESTION 1. Where did Kenneth Lin learn his VT from?

Ip Man >Wong Shun Leung>Divid Peterson>Victor Leow>Chung Che Man>Kenneth Lin
Sum Nung>Yuan Zhu Tang>Victor Leow>Chung Che Man>Kenneth Lin
Ip Man>Chu Shong Tin>Others>Victor Leow>Chung Che Man>Kenneth Lin

WONG SHUN LEUNG VT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRNrY...eature=related
Sum Nung VT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVhRMzywe6Y
Grandmaster Chu Shong Tin Authentic Wing Chun Compilation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUZkNxq7A1Y

QUESTION 2. Why did he call Lo Han kung fu as male kung fu?

Tio Tik Kwie: (Lo Han kung fu)> Kenneth Lin

Lo Han Kung Fu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2CX_adDjfo

QUESTION 3. Where did this so-called Black Flag VT come from?

Kenneth Lin's old website
http://web.archive.org/web/200506230...m/lineage.html

QUESTION 4. Were there 5 flag VT from Shaolin Temple?

Black Flag videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gwm3zhjBcGc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5clXh0PPA1g